Regardless of your opinions about her specifically, it’s a simple fact that positive societal change doesn’t happen by asking nicely. Look at every civil rights movement ever. Nothing got done until people were inconvenienced and companies lost money.
No change doesn’t happen by asking nicely, but I think some joined up thinking by these groups would get them further than performative protesting and getting arrested. If you want change then you lobby politicians on the positive benefits of change, and businesses on the potential profits to be had from implementing it.
You: Hey government, here’s my vote!
Giant Corporations: Hey government, here’s $1 trillion
That’s unrealistic. A supreme court justice only costs an RV and some vacations. You only need a few billion to buy control, assuming your interests are aligned with the other billionaires and they don’t negate your spending.
I’ve seen lobbying donations of $30,000. Our country is ABSOLUTELY fucked.
Bye America 🇺🇸 (more like buy America amirite)
That’s not the real bribery. The real bribery is uncountable, sometimes literally bribes that are obscured, or more often positions in companies for them and their friend’s and family, consulting fees, etc. This can all add up to hundreds of millions.
Heck… even one of those vacations that the person you responded to was referencing probably comes to over 50 - 100k per when you consider fully burdened cost.
But all the lobbying has already happened - for decades - and nothing has changed. Fossil fuel companies have poured in billions over the course of decades, and still are, to counter lobby and spread misinformation to keep the status quo.
You’re only seeing the ‘performative’ protesting in the media and not the lobbying because it’s easy to report on, but in reality this movement is on its last legs. It is THAT level of desperation now.
Do you think they’d still be protesting if the government actually implemented the policies brought forward by climate scientists decades ago?
What civil rights advancements have been won with this strategy?
Why do you assume the two are exclusive?
Because they are. Groups like PETA, or Just Stop Oil are clowns who hurt their own cause. Performative protesting might win people a participation prize but to everyone else it’s just “look at meeeeee!”. At a certain point it actually becomes toxic to the cause. I know if I wanted to harm environmental campaigning then I’d invent Just Stop Oil.
Meanwhile big business are sending lobbiests in to change politician’s minds, to make arguments that appeal to their rationality, or self-interest. THAT is what environmental campaigners should be doing - lobbying, extoling the benefits of environmental action, changing minds. Getting arrested in front of cameras over and over just becomes pathetic and performative.
Yeah that’s bullshit. Society has been improving overall throughout history. Lots of positive change is brought about by people chasing bigger profits.
Only when those positive changes lead to bigger profits than staying the course
had me in the first half
I honestly cannot tell if this is meant to be ironic or not.
Hell, I would support my kids doing exactly this.
Bad. This girl does more good to the cause than hurt. We need more of her and less silly people to change minds.
Her being portrayed by the media or the memes as the “whiny girl seeking attention” is also worrying as well. It really distracts from the real issue and diminishes her work as well.
Honestly I think she distracts from the real issue. Frankly, I can’t think of a worse person to motivate people to take action.
I mean the scientists have been loud and clear. So have some politicians, but that’s not a special “story” for the media. So it just happened that a very vocal (at the time) little Girl got a lot of attention, because it seemed so special.
But how does what she is saying distract from the real issue? That’s not an attack, I’m genuinely curious what you think the real issue is and how she distracts from it…
It’s not what she’s saying, it’s the messenger.
Do you think she’s the type of person that a climate change laggard would respect, or want to engage with?
Her argument for being vocal is that her and her generation will have to live with the consequences of our fuckups the longest and hardest. I think that’s pretty valid. Also, she wasn’t “elected by the central climate movement council to be their representative”, if anyone, the media “elected” her and gave her a platform. So maybe be mad at them for not choosing someone “better”?
There are plenty of old white men with respectable titles saying the exact same thing as her. If a “climate change laggard” wants to hear the same message in a deeper voice, they certainly can. For those who can be moved to action at all (and there are definitely many who are “too far gone” in some conspiracy bullshit) she can be effective for many, especially younger people who have to be shaken from their stupor. So I think it’s a bit critical to “tell the girl to shut up”.
Her argument for being vocal is that her and her generation will have to live with the consequences of our fuckups the longest and hardest.
Surprise, but if you stop generate energy by oil you can’t have hard industry. It is quite difficult to cast steel without huge energy consumption. And aluminum is even more difficult. But for some reason, no one wants to ride horses and abandon airplanes. Them can stop buy industrial products. And problem will gone.
And no, strangling heavy industry in your country until it is evacuated to China is not a fight for the global environment.
It is convenient, of course, to tell what idiots everyone around is without having worked a single day in heavy industry. And in Greta’s case, without having worked a day at all, apparently. I suggest she work at the factory for a couple of years and then repeat her statements.
And it is better to live for a couple of years in a country with a less mild climate. Let’s say where it is -30 in winter. Surely she doesn’t hope that all 9 billion people will fit into the warm bosom of the Gulf Stream? Pollution from heating is also very significant. We don’t even turn off cars here in some cities because then we just won’t start them.
Oof, just say what you mean
Ok. She’s a vapid twenty year old with no life experience and nothing to say. She has no expertise, and she’s never suffered any inconvenience to prevent climate change.
Never suffered any inconvenience? Like, have you seen how she travels? But also…
What expertise do you need to say “stop adding carbon to the atmosphere” at this point? Everyone lives here, we all should have something to say about what is inevitably coming down the pike - especially the young. You just come across as someone who has everything to lose wanting those with nothing to lose to sit down, shut up, buckle up, and just be grateful for the ride to whatever hell we’re heading to.
No offense. Just a genuine question. Where do activists like Greta get income or the money to travel or just for day to day living? Especially considering she has been doing this since a young age.
Pls don’t take my comment as in a bad light. I’m the same age as her so I always wondered. The answer could be NGO’s collecting donations but I’m not sure.
Her father is an actor and her mother an opera singer who has won Eurovision. They are wealthy.
It mentions her donating earnings from books she sells as well as award prizes to NGO’s, and it mentions her travelling on her parents’ dime.
Those award prizes can go into the 6 and 7 figures, apparently.
I bought her book so sure that helped. Give me a link and I will donate to. She doing good work. Wish she could be charge of her government. She the type of world leaders we need.
Her parents are incredibly wealthy.
It’s a complaint many have with her. She comes from the same class of people that are responsible for most of the problems of the world. It’s genuinely off-putting but there’s really not that many choices out there for people with this amount of influence and money who are willing to take up this fight.
There’s a few large orgs like Extinction Rebellion that are really organised. Greta probably takes the train which isn’t that expensive in Europe and then couch surfs because that’s what being a hippie is all about
Organizations like Fridays for Future are funded by donations and part of the money goes towards protests and publicity. I assume they allocate some money to have these prominent people present.
It’s a very good question to ask and anyone who gets mad at you over it isn’t worth taking seriously.
I assume she just has rich parents that pay for everything.
Iran.
Onlyfans
Andrew tate on lemmy?
sauce
If only, lol.
Bonk.
She’s Illuminati. She was born into it. Only an illuminati kid would be given such a huge international platform.
She’s Illuminati
Of like to hear the “reasoning” behind this statement.
Of like
🤔❓
I’d like
Swipe typing mistake.
Umm guys this is most probably satire
That’s the great thing about the Internet… You can never be sure.
This thread is just cancer, reminds me of reddit.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Greta Thunberg was detained by police at a demonstration in The Hague, in the Netherlands.
The climate activist was put in a bus by local police along with other protesters who tried to block a major highway into the city on Saturday.
Thunberg had joined a protest by hundreds of activists and was detained when she joined a group of about 100 people who tried to block the A12 highway.
Before she was detained, Thunberg said: “We are in a planetary emergency and we are not going to stand by and let people lose their lives and livelihood and be forced to become climate refugees when we can do something.”
The road has been blocked for several hours dozens of times in recent months by activists demanding an end to all subsidies for the use of fossil fuels.
Thunberg was seen flashing a victory sign as she sat in the bus used by police to take detained demonstrators from the scene.The Extinction Rebellion campaign group said before the demonstration that the activists would block a main highway into The Hague, but a heavy police presence, including officers on horseback, initially prevented the activists from getting on to the road.A small group of people managed to sit down on another road and were detained after ignoring police orders to leave.Extinction Rebellion activists have blocked the highway that runs past the temporary home of the Dutch parliament more than 30 times to protest against subsidies.The demonstrators waved flags and chanted: “We are unstoppable, another world is possible.”One held a banner reading: “This is a dead end street.”In February, Thunberg, 21, was acquitted by a court in London of refusing to follow a police order to leave a protest blocking the entrance to an oil and gas industry conference last year.Her activism has inspired a global youth movement demanding stronger efforts to fight the climate crisis since she began staging weekly protests outside the Swedish parliament in 2018.She has repeatedly been fined in Sweden and the UK for civil disobedience in connection with protests.
The original article contains 361 words, the summary contains 341 words. Saved 6%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
She got detained more than my uncle
I hope governments pick up on this climate thing. A demonstration is always a great way to convince people.
I’ve lived in places that have a climate and it’s great!
Is this some ai post?
I think it’s an attempt at comedy
Definitely felt like bad reddit-humor to me.
Hey I try my best.
LOL
People down voting a joke. Sheesh
A climate protester who is frequently arrested/detained due to protesting has been arrested/detained for protesting. This is the story every time she is arrested/detained.
Maybe I’m jaded, but, who cares? How is this world news?
Same reason anything that happened to Navalny was world news.
These are (were) good people fighting the good fight. It’s news when they are punished for trying to help us.
Maybe I’m jaded, but, who cares?
You do, clearly.
While I get your point, I would definitely have called Navalny “way less bad than Putin”, but not “good”. He never really renounced or seriously backed away from his ultranationalist vibe.
I’m no fan of her but it’s news. She travels the world and babbles like an idiot. That fits the Definition of world news.
I always ridiculed her, although secretly I admired her determination and also agreed with her aims.
Then she started her pro-Gaza ramblings. She clearly has no idea about history of the middle east and also can’t classifiy current events. To noone’s surprise as she has hardly visited school. She’s also 20 now, so a full adult, she does not have this young-innocent-girl Jeanne d’Arc bonus anymore.
To noone’s surprise as she has hardly visited school
What?
Good. This girl does more harm to the cause than help. We need less of her and more serious people to change minds.
We need more like her who take the threat as a threat and act like it’s a threat.
Being “serious” or calm about it is not working, and catastrophically so.
She just babbles and has no solution to the problem. She’s addicted to the media attention.
As voters we need to push politicians to make changes and in America that is through taxation and not bans.
Biden has pushed stupid legislation that won’t accomplish anything.
You want to reduce ice cars? Increase gasoline taxes and remove subsidies. Gas would double in price with would reduce the miles people drive and the size of their cars.
The problem is it’s a global problem and everyone needs to pitch it.
Addicted to the attention? I know nothing about her except her age and her stance on climate change
She doesn’t go off topic, she doesn’t do talk shows. Maybe she loves the attention deep down, but she stays on mission…She doesn’t abuse the privilege. She’s allowed to enjoy the process, I hope she does.
I challenge you to follow your convictions to that extent
She doesn’t abuse the privilege
Like when she threw the fit that the train didn’t give her first class. Yep, doesn’t abuse her privilege at all.
Hmm… seems like you should thank her.
Because she participated in that protest, she got arrested, a news source wrote about it, and you got to bring up good points about how we need to take more action.
Yeah she
babblesspeaks about the issues, but since she’s not (yet?) an elected official, what else would you have her do?Personally I’d like to see her go away. She does nothing to help in my opinion and gives credit it’s a crazy conspiracy. She just comes off as an idiot.
The way you make change is vote for people that want to make real changes. Not stupid crap like carbon credits. People that have real ideas.
You talk to your friends about it. I’ve got several people to switch to teslas and solar power. It requires logic and facts.
Just babbling like an idiot turns people off and they don’t think a thing but made up conspiracy.
She literally formed the largest climate protest movement in the world, while you sit here and spread dumbass conspiracy bullshit about her.
I never said anything about a conspiracy. I said she an idiot who really isn’t helping.
Ah yes, the person who has rallied up more people (current and future voters) globally around the climate issue than anyone else as of late has done nothing to help. I think what you mean is that she annoys you.
She damages the vision.
I don’t know anyone she’s rallied. She’s universally made fun of this country.
What has changed since she’s been ranting? Nothing. She wants the focus on her and not the issue
You’re still advocating individual car ownership as a sustainable future…buses, trams, trolleys, LRT, trains. 6000lbs (2200kilos) just to get a few groceries is over kill.
Maybe you don’t live in America but for the foreseeable future, that is the solution. The first step is a reduction in using fossil fuels. Public transportation would take decades to build out to a useable level in America.
Classic Lemmy mass downvoting everything that does not sit with their ideology without ever looking at the actual situation.
You are absolutely correct in that it would take at least a decade if not longer to build reliable public transit in all of America, ESPECIALLY in the suburbs to the point where you wouldn’t need a car. And to keep it real with you, I don’t see it happening for even another century. And that’s just one of the issues that’s leading to climate change. Much bigger problems like the top 1% owning 1000 cars and 20 private jets that nobody ever talks about. Always blame the average citizen rather than the ruling class, always tell the average citizen to be better than telling the ruling class to be better. Yea no major change will happen for at least another century. I know I will get downvoted cause this is Lemmy where people downvote anytuing that doesn’t sit with their idealistic non realistic opinions (that I tend to agree with but they are just not realistic for many reasons) but I couldn’t care less
Not just in Lemmy, but I think there’s an increasing divide between the demographic I’m going to call “has only ever lived in a major city” and “everyone else”, especially online.
A shocking amount of people (to me) have never once in their life lived in an area with less than like 500,000 people. To many of these people, it is incomprehensible to imagine that a lot of people have legitimate needs for cars. They have good intentions, and many of them are otherwise smart people, but they really struggle to imagine how and where many Americans live, and what all goes into things like the transportation of goods and services.
Public transportation is great! But without what would be the largest investment in infrastructure in human history by several magnitudes there’s simply no way to just get rid of 90% of car ownership or whatever.
“It can’t be done instantly overnight so why even bother trying to do it slowly?”
🙄
Unfortunately I want to say public transit sucks everywhere in America besides maybe NYC and some of the other densely built East Coast cities. I commute throughout Los Angeles (second biggest city in the US by population) and use the public transit there sometimes because I don’t have a choice (check my last post if you don’t believe me) and it feels like you are being punished for taking public transit. I don’t want to say that it is filled with homeless and is unsafe because I have personally never had that bad of an experience (although that is an issue that does need to be addressed if everyone especially younger women were to ride public transit), but the most frustrating part about riding public transit here is the abysmal planning of the layout. Every single public transit (specifically subway) map in the US goes through the downtown of the city with no other way around it. If you know anything abouy Los Angeles neighborhoods, you would know that there is no way to get from Westwood or Santa Monica to Hollywood without going through downtown, no way to go from Long Beach to Inglewood without going through downtown, and this leads to incredibly inefficient and time consuming transportation that just is not feasible for someone who doesn’t have time to spend 2 hours commuting back n forth each way everyday times a week. A ride that would be 30 minutes with car can take well over an hour with public transit here. So I’m not sure where the massive hate train towards cars on Lemmy comes from (maybe most are from Europe where public transit is actually good) but even in a majority of the big cities in the US it is practically unusable unless you have unlimited time to spare.
Edit: to continue on, the abysmal planning of these public transit systems in America are to be blamed on the lawmakers and the ruling class of the city, county, and also business owners who lobby public transit routes through their buildings, not the average citizen who bought a Tesla instead of using the shit public transit system.
Edit again: y’all are hilarious, downvoting me for literally describing the situation (I never even said anything of opinion) buncha butthurt degenerate tankies just mass downvoting everything
I would like to see more public options but at this time, that isn’t going to help much. California has been trying to build high speed rail since I was a kid. Still hasn’t done shit. I think hybrids are the gap technology until we can get electric cars more affordable. The 1% will always act like it’s everyone else and even if we increased fuel taxes. It won’t phase them.
You are a bad person.
have a bad day bro
Genuinely curious: what does a “serious person” do to change minds here?
Work with legislatures or even boycott a business. You push for actual change that is reasonable and meaningful. Instead of trying to push electric down everyone’s throats, push hybrids. Push plug in hybrids. We have the ability to do that now.
Well, those are two very different things. One is essentially for politicians and basically amounts to “just get Congress to do better” (a whole lot easier said than done) and one is an act that essentially has to be championed by a person or organization and then implemented by a masse of people. Greta has called for boycotts before, so under this definition she’s good under your boat.
I’ve read other comments of yours, and many of them are reasonable (more reasonable than the average user at least) and not worthy of downvotes. But your solutions seem to be missing a few steps between “be where we are now” and “just get everyone to drive a hybrid”.
Greta calling for a boycott, just would make people buy the product.
Bud light recently was boycotted and look how effective that was.
I’m not missing a step, you increase fuel taxes, end subsidies, end fracking and make hybrids tax advantageous.
The market will sort itself out very quickly.
Lmao, “People should boycott businesses, but if this one person does what I just said to do, then it’s actually bad because I say so.”
Okay, well you just added several steps right there, and you’re still missing some.
Who increases fuel taxes and subsidies? How do we as a civilization get that done?
Your state senators and state representatives at the local and federal level. Taxes are done by the government. Remove subsidies are the same people.
Okay. How do we influence those state representatives to pass that legislation?
You can’t write unpopular opinions here…
Kiwi is better than pineapple on pizza
Damn, throw some jalapeños on there and you might have a real winner.
Hot honey and bacon
She’s a hero, she’s the reason why everyone is talking about climate change - even my kids are trying to make better choices and saying they’ve learned about it because of her, they’ve never heard of you.
Yeah people here make fun of her.
So what changes did your kids make because of her? I’m curious because most her rants are just we are killing people. What actionable item came from her rants ?
People here are making fun of you, but you’re not letting that stop you, so you have that in common.
They are vegan, they get involved at their school on environmental improvements, they make sure they don’t waste etc. and they make sure to highlight the plight of the future to others.
I honestly don’t know how you can look at Greta Thunberg and underestimate the impact she’s had on public discourse on climate change.
In before trolls have a go at them for being vegan, this very respected recent meta analysis published in science clearly finds that going vegan is the number one thing you can do to help most climate change factors https://josephpoore.com/Science 360 6392 987 - Accepted Manuscript.pdf
Personally I’ll never go vegan. To each his own.
I have seen zero impact due to her work. Zero.
All I see if both sides making fun of her rants.
She is the reason my kid stopped participating in climate events. She didn’t want to be associated with her.
You have never seen any impact because you’re trying to mash your hands over your ears and close your eyes. I literally just told you the an impact she’s had on my family and you still don’t recognise an impact.
Of course, I’m sure anecdotes mean nothing to you, so look further at the awards, media attention, speeches, international demonstrations that started with her. Zero impact? Jesus, we are having this conversation because of her.
Honestly, if you can’t imagine that this particular household name, face of Time magazine and organiser of global protests has had any impact at all, you probably also believe that the moon landing was faked, the election was stolen, the earth is flat, and there’s no helping your unhealthy relationship with bad takes.
Jesus, we are having this conversation because of her.
Yes, how damaging she is to the cause. Due to her it’s been hard to get any politician to listen because of her nutty behavior.
While it seems to have swayed you, she has t swayed American discussion on the topic.
Unfortunately, that says more about American discussion - America has moved beyond left Vs right to reality Vs “alternative facts”. For example, climate change denialism, large vaccines cause autism, the election fraud nonsense. Unfortunately, given that opportunistic morons like America’s republican party have politicised and denied climate change, I’m sure they’ll be a segment of the population that will blame anything, including Greta.
So yes, I do agree with you that the large anti science wing of America wouldn’t warm to her, but they never would have.
I think climate activists would just be better off doing what everyone else does - lobbying. Identify politicians who represent areas who would benefit from pollution controls, or green investment or whatever and push the message. Performative acts in front of cameras might feel good but it’s a blunt tool to change policy. Some protestors such as “just stop oil” campaigners are so stupid that they actually help the causes they supposedly oppose.
Yeah but here’s the problem
They don’t own massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions of dollars
Have they tried owning massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions in profit?
Might help.
Climate activists can lobby in person when available, taking time away from other things. Oil companies can hire armies of lobbyists - some of whom masquerading as “concerned citizens” - to overwhelm public hearings, buy out media companies to manipulate public opinion and engage in astroturfing campaigns, and directly sway politicians with legal bribery (deliberately being vague about the purpose of “gifts” to maintain the benefit of the doubt about there being any quid pro quo involved).
Lobbying effectively requires resources - namely capital - which oil companies have in abundance and climate activists do not. To suggest that climate activists should simply fight on their terms is ignorant at best and malicious at worst.
What do you think they are trying to do, dumbass?
She looks like she is jealous of Malaya for getting more attention
Removed by mod
Billionaires destroying yours’ and your family’s only planet. Your response is to get angry at the messenger like a cuck for the billionaire class who don’t give a shit if you live or die. Cool and normal response
Jesus wouldn’t like you.
They are demonstrating for good reason.
