That’s all.
EDIT: Thank you all for detailing your experience with, and hatred for, this miserable product. Your display of solidarity is inspiring. Now, say it with me:
Fuck Microsoft
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Microsoft OneDrive is the maggots in the dog shit
There shouldn’t be worms in the poop of a healthy dog. This analogy just keeps getting better and more accurate.
Maggots aren’t worms.
Oooh, I hate it so bad…… I used to click “Save” and my word document would ask to save in the only folder I save ALL my documents in. Change the name, save, so easy!
Now it asks if I want to save to OneDrive… Fuck No Mr Paperclip! I want it in the folder I always use and don’t want to have to select “Other” then dig through screens to select the thing I use every time!
Hit F12 to bypass the bs.
Note to self….
On Mac, I would use Keyboard Maestro to try to automate that. I think AutoHotkey can do the same kind of thing on Windows?
So annoying. The OneDrive documents folder masquerading as your actual docs folder. Diabolical.
What’s worse is when I need to upload the doc to a website the OneDrive folder is nowhere to be found.
Tricksy onedrives
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Onedrive is pretty ok, other than being annoying. A company I worked for was acquired by another company that had their own cloud storage product. After the acquisition, they forced us to migrate from onedrive to their product. It was so bad… Files would constantly corrupt and disappear, the speed was terrible, trying to share files didn’t work half the time, when sharing folders the people you shared with wouldn’t see all the files in the folder. They also limited our storage from 1TB to 25GB making it pretty useless for storing builds of our product or trying to share VMs.
And the worst part is that they also closed our SMB network share to force us to use that piece of shit.
After that experience, I will never complain about Onedrive again.
Haha oh man that sounds infuriating. Of course it could be worse, but def could be better
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That’s all.
There’s more: microsoft outlook is garbage
The new outlook has exceeded “garbage” and gone all the way to dumpster fire. It sometimes takes upwards of 15, 30 seconds to open an email. The new auto formatting is a hindrance to be overcome by tricking it to act how you want. Trying to schedule an event across timezones shits the bed half the time, resulting in improper meeting times being sent out. Absolute failure.
New Outlook also doesn’t support Really Simple Syndication, which I used a lot with the Old Outlook.
So back to old Outlook I go.
My CISO has all but said he’s going to prevent any auto-rollout of that shit because it breaks decades of user training and TRUNCATES THE FRONT OF THE URL, NOT THE BACK LIKE ANY SENSIBLE APPLICATION.
Like, let’s make it so Steve in accounting can’t see that the login link he wants to click is actually haxxor.com instead of bank.com, makes perfect fucking sense.
Wait, really? I’ve found the new outlook opens emails faster than the old one, especially the HTML-heavy ones that my work loves to send me.
The refactor to the rules UI is really nice too, the old one was so crusty. Can’t comment on the timezone issue though.
I’ve been told the extended time to open is related to how big the outlook database is, I average 200 emails received a day with various alerts and notifications from internal tools and it cripples new outlook in about a week if I’m not diligent with keeping folders cleaned out/emails deleted. This volume wasn’t a issue before I switched.
Ah so your issue is, let me see here… Ah, actually using Outlook like a normal user.
I’ve tried switching to Thunderbird myself but it doesn’t support Office 365 without a third party service. So I feel stuck with Outlook.
Ah, actually using Outlook like a normal user.
Ha, right? I’m keeping my fingers crossed there is some executive at MS raging and it will get resolved before they force everyone off the legacy version. Surely there are people inside their organization with tons more traffic than I see.
There’s probably a microsoft engineer out there somewhere sitting in a cubical who has the solution already written and tested and they just can’t figure out how to send it to their boss. They’ve tried outlook, teams, github, skype, and even one drive but they’re all so broken that it may just be faster to print the code out and mail it.
I accidentally switched to it and it dropped all my non-MS mailboxes. Then when I immediately switched back it had the gall to ask me why.
I will give respect where due: I like the sweep button. It’s handy for me personally, as someone who is on several email lists that are public-facing. That’s about it.
Every attempt to help me automatically is a pain. Like most things in this vein it never learns what you’re trying to do, only what they would do in a given scenario that’s vaguely like ours.
I think there’s tons of things I love for it to do for me automatically - there’s all sorts of quality of life features that I only notice when they change it, usually without bothering to tell me. And now, my muscle memory is leading to unexpected behavior, and it’ll take me weeks to learn to stop doing that, and a few more months of training to learn the new muscle memory as I relapse at all the worst times
Some of it is straight up better, some of it is great new capabilities, but in the last few years? All that comes to mind is I thought it was pretty cool they added auto responses, even if I never actually use them. Doesn’t change existing behavior, just adds a new option that’s not in the way
But then the auto complete - I hate it so much. And I love auto complete - except it’s the fucking opposite behavior of every IDE out there, including Microsoft’s! I can’t even unlearn it, because it’s a core part of my workflow!
So now, I constantly have to delete things I never wanted to say, and I delete the things I thought sounded good.
I like new features and the computer doing things for me automagically… But I’d rather them to just stop at this point
I’ll die on the hill that classic outlook is far better than Gmail and similar web interfaces for email especially if you have long threads or lots of emails.
Also somehow Google’s email search sucks so bad compared to searching in outlook.
Thunderbird <3
It’s actually disturbing that Thunderbird is the only good smtp/imap client available and it’s not receiving that much funding.
I agree. The old Outlook was snappy and dense of information. The new Outlook is just a fucking web page.
If I’m being honest the only Microsoft product I actually like is Excel.
They’re doing their best to “improve” excel too… I can’t understand how their AI generated cell fill is worse than the old approach.
Ever try finding an old email by sender. Lol, good luck
Microsoft Teams isn’t all bad! For example, it bogged down my work computer so much at start up that I would basically get an extra break.
It temporarily deletes my meetings just before they happen, so that I don’t have to attend them!
Of course, when I open it later, the meetings are restored, with the original date, and no trace of the deletion. So not attending them is quite hard to explain to others. But it does save me from attending!
Just do in what I do. Don’t join meetings most of the time. That way when you do it is noteworthy to the meeting stakeholder.
Yeah sure my manglers through the years try to have ‘the talk’ but after awhile of training them via sheer apathy they shut the fuck up.
I solve complex problems, get my tasks done, I’m independent and I stay busy because I’ll get bored. Most meetings could just be an email. There’s no real collaboration except managers or scrum masters asking what your blockers are but not actually doing anything about it. If I think the meeting will be a waste of my time I just don’t show up.
Take a print
The one problem with that is that I need to know I’m not being told about a meeting to take a print.
The the screen recording always on lol
Oh, nice, Windows 11 will fix Teams!
fuxk yea I get like an extra 30 mins a day at leastttt
Hahaha!
Fuckin epic!
Microsoft
Teamsis dog shitThat’s all.
Bill Gates is en route to your location
Oh dear god, no, what have I done
Bill Gates in this episode looks like he’d have nanomachines
Such a brave opinion on Lemmy you have balls if steel sir.
If steel what?
Your mother
😮
I don’t understand reacting like this. Do you disagree? Do you think only people with opinions that aren’t popular on whatever place they are should share them? Should no one ever say what many others are thinking?
Yes
What blows my mind is MS fucking bought Skype and somehow Teams still can’t handle video calls correctly. The actual fuck did they do with that acquisition?
Skype used to be peer to peer. Your call went from you to your friend (whomever). Microsoft decided that they couldn’t mitm that setup to scrape data; so, soon after they acquired Skype, they made all calls go through their servers.
Then they tried to make Skype make more money, since those servers aren’t free. Then they made teams and copied half the code into that, and cludged the rest to make it hold together.
In mean aside from the fact that almost all of that story is completely wrong, it’s a good story.
Source: Used to work at Microsoft and worked a lot with people from the Skype team.
What is the real story?
Skype made the call negotiation go through a central server (as does all systems nowadays). Skype was originally built on Kazaa technology to punch through firewalls without a central coordinator and that’s what Microsoft removed. They didn’t remove it to track the calling but to enable larger group calls on weaker devices which required video mixing on a central system rather than peer to peer call (where weaker peers couldn’t decode that many video streams). Calls up to 4 are still routed peer to peer if the backend can find routes through all firewalls.
Very very little of Skype was in the new Teams if anything. Teams was a rewrap of Communicator calling tech and was a response to Slack. The real time chatting had nothing to do with Skype either.
Skype lingered in Microsoft for a couple of reasons; Microsoft was crap at acquiring businesses back then, thinking that a hands off approach was best. It meant Skype never really became a proper Microsoft team - they still felt and acted like Skype employees and they didn’t manage to affect Redmond very well. Being acquired is super hard especially when almost all of the bigger business was in a different time zone and a different culture.
I was at a leadership development workshop with a tonne of Skype leaders about 10 years ago. They were still feeling incredibly frustrated and not understanding what was expected of them. It was a botched acquisition and the fault was on both sides.
So Teams calls of 1-4 people can send traffic direct peer-to-peer if they’re on the same LAN right?
Do all calls of 5+ users stay centrally hosted on the cloud? These are the kinds of things that MS should document and make easily available for IT and firewall admins. Finding info on Teams ports wasn’t easy in my experience.You’re way outside my scope of knowledge - I know a bit about the decisions they took 10 years, and not very much on what is happening today. I would imagine some of these limits are configurable and dynamic. I really don’t know.
They probably used Chat-GPT which at the time…
Ok Mr Chat I need to rewrite the Skype code to look more like what we have been doing at Microsoft…
Oh my! It keeps crashing my PC, can you do a little less crash and more icons and shit?
Oh, it crashed my PC once more. How about this time no crash?
Dude, I said no crash! But nice graphics! Can you make the people icons at least 25% of the total screen real estate? And can you also hide the full screen icon into at least half an hour of clicks? Yeah make it real hidden!
Fantastic work on the full screen thing! Could you not make it like anything Microsoft has made before up to the point where it can actually run?
Good job at sending all my information to random strangers! Many points for that! And the icons! Soo big and beautiful! Thanks Chat-GPT! Bill! We’re ready to release!
…
When do you think teams came out?
I’ve been using teams for 3 or 4 years before the pandemic… So maybe around 2015? I gotta Google check that. But then before it was called teams it was called Skype. I recall the thing had a shitty transition to becoming teams.
Looks like the transition was around 2016 from Skype to teams but Skype has been around since 2003.
You should write a post sometime about what you know from the internals of Skype. I would read it.
Skype is fading fast. Thank God. Discord is already an internet standard.
Replacing garbage with sewer water. Not exactly an improvement.
And at least garbage let you make international calls with the money you put into it. Nitro-saturated sewer water gives you what—a bit of extra bandwidth utilization, 2 free tokens to prove you’re above the poverty line, and discounts on paid cosmetics?
How the fuck did they let motherfucking Zoom take over. The video-call equivalent of “Googling” something was to “Skype.” When Covid hit, Microsoft screwed the pooch horribly.
My sister is super high ranking at Microsoft, and when she calls the family, she uses Zoom.
I don’t see “screwed the pooch” used much but it always is funny to me.
Well, I’m a unix guy for 30 years and hated M$ bill gates blablabla and forced to use windows at work etc. Teams was somewhat bad at the beginning, especially start of covid pandemic , I’m using Teams multiple times daily for ~5 years now. But since ~1 year it handles video call pretty nicely, 20+ feeds, share screens, whiteboard, etc. it’s pretty stable at least, don’t crash anymore, and we can have multiple accounts. It took times to reach this state I agree…
In the past two years, I have had horrible issues where it decides that I’m not allowed to join the call because I have a Teams account logged into a different organization, that it won’t let me log out of. An issue where Microsoft servers just time out if you have ipv6 enabled, etc.
Don’t get me started on Skype for Business. It’s still around.
Oh yeah, that multiple organizations things absolutely fuuuucks me since I’m adjunct at multiple universities/colleges. It keeps trying to default me to a place I don’t even work at anymore and somehow still refuses to let me leave it without reinstalling Windows (which I won’t do as I’ll be moving to Linux full time once I do).
Teams are losing parts of text chat conversations for me. Not sure if that’s issue of their PWA on Linux or just an issue in general…
PWA in Linux is unusable yep, with FF or Edge, super buggy.
I’m using Teams in Windows, I have a software KVM to move between my Linux PC and work windows laptop
I always say that the only reason they keep Skype alive is to make Teams appear good
The core of what made Skype great was made by a team of engineers in Estonia. Once it got acquired most of those people left the company. Many of them ended up at Twilio.
I was expecting a detailed rant, including an example or two. “That’s all” is much, much funnier.
Need a Explanation?
(Gestures vaguely in the air)
Microsoft Teams: Awww, come on, you just motioned all of me.
Is there a Microsoft product that isn’t?
To be fair, Teams is pretty bad even for MS. I’ve never seen something do so relatively little and still perform so poorly. When I switched jobs and got to use Slack it was like a great fog being lifted off of my being.
VS Code. That’s it though.
You may know already, but you should try VSCodium. At least they took the Micro$hit telemetry out!
Powertoys too
That’s open source though?
Ah yes, you’re right.
I guess a better qualifier might be: closed-source Microsoft products tend overwhelmingly to suck.
VS Code is OK if you can’t afford the JetBrains ultimate subscription. I never want to see a VS Code launch configuration again.
Fuck subscriptions though.
Agreed…the community editions of their tools are solid, but if you’re doing cloud stuff, get your company to pay for it. It blows VS Code out of the water.
Ehh, it’s ok in the case of JetBrains - if your subscription lapses your license converts to a ‘perpetual fallback license’ so can just continue using the version you installed when the subscription was originally purchased.
I’m using a 4 year old version of PhpStorm with no issues and no subscription. My PyCharm sub ended 6 months ago and I’m staying on the 2023 version of PyCharm because the latest version comes with lots of AI which makes my CPU fans scream continuously.
WebStorm and Rider will have community versions soon, they are going to eat VS Code’s lunch.
They’ve been cramming random stuff in that though that’s making it more laggy. Recently switched to Zed and it’s so much faster.
WSL was my gateway drug to Linux. It’s neat. Until it isn’t.
Visual Studio for live .NET debugging and the WPF live editor.
TypeScript isn’t terrible. It’s extra work to set up, but it makes JavaScript codebases somewhat more maintainable.
Some C/C++ extension process once reduced my laptop to a crawl, and I couldn’t close VS Code, so I killed the process through the task manager, simple enough, right?
Long story short, I started smelling burning plastic and saw that, somehow, there was no VS Code process, but the extension had a separate process that was still running at full speed doing idk what. I almost burned myself when I picked up my laptop. So I’m not very happy when I see VS Code
Your laptop caught fire while running vs code it had nothing to do with it, it doesn’t have a “burn my laptop” function.
Excel, Active Directory, and to a somewhat lesser degree MSSQL.
Excel?! Have to respectfully disagree on that one.
What’s wrong with excel?
Excel is great.
It does so much that people make it do what it shouldn’t, and never think to explore technologies beyond it… Like a proper fucking database.
Then you get garbage business systems based on fragile excel sheets with bonkers macros and weird ETL pipelines to sync things.
And never try to deal with dates and timezones.And never try to deal with dates and timezones.
Or anything that looks like dates.
Gene scientists had to revise their whole naming scheme because Excel would see MARCH1 (Membrane-Associated Ring-CH-Finger Type 1), and ‘helpfully’ convert it into a date, rendering it useless (since it uses timestamps on the backend).
It’s bad enough that my data science course recommended against opening CSV files in Excel, because it would edit the file to do the conversion, even before you explicitly saving, mangling your data before you could process it.
Reminds me of my last job where I had to build a ridiculously complex excel spreadsheet that I copied a bunch of reports into to do scheduling because someone decided I didn’t need access to the actual data…
It’s an awful mix of half-assed approaches to things. Awkward syntax on everything and very poor at recognizing what types of data it is handling.
Open a CSV in a fresh Excel install. It will almost certainly mistake something for a date if the CSV is sufficiently large (unless the user is exceedingly explicit at changing settings for that particular CSV). It will reformat that data as a date, and as an added bonus, since Autosave is on by default, it’ll save that reformatted data back into your CSV. Yes, settings can be changed to avoid these things. But why isn’t it just designed better so as to avoid it altogether?
If that was just a natural side effect of spreadsheet apps, I could understand it. But LibreOffice Calc is a million times better at recognizing what types of data it is handling, so it seems to just be Excel’s shittiness.
The fact that it also hasn’t really changed beyond aesthetics since 2004 is just… wild.
Can confirm. I’ve sent csv files to my coworkers, and they’ve tried to tell me that the files I sent were invalid. It’s because they opened up the file in Excel to look at it first, and Excel autosaved the reformatted data.
Sadly I had to go the other way, from Slack to Teams. Oh the horror!!
For your sacrifices, I salute you
How about Zoom to Teams?
Excel?
PowerPoint is shit but it’s the best by far
C#, technically not a product but it’s pretty great. The first few Xboxes, but that’s going back a bit.
Windows pre 8.
Microsoft Excel is goat for spreadsheets.
Erm. Can’t think of any more.
Windows 8.1 was great, you just have to enable the start button and disable Metro. It’s basically a faster Windows 7.
I must be the only one who prefers Teams over Slack. I just don’t like its design. Nothing makes sense to me in how it operates. But then again, Trams runs fine for me. No slow downs or deleting things that others have mentioned.
I have an old Microsoft brand thumb drive that fits perfectly into my ass and makes me nut every time
Unpopular opinion: I actually like MS Teams
Look, I know this might get downvoted, but Teams is… actually fine? Yeah, it’s not perfect, but it just works. The best part is that everyone and their grandma knows how to use it because it’s the corporate standard around here.
I can’t tell you how much time I’ve saved not having to do the whole “can you hear me? let me try reconnecting… oh wait try updating your browser” dance that happens with other platforms. My company recently switched to Google Meet and honestly? It’s been a downgrade. Teams might not be the coolest kid on the block, but at least I’m not spending half my meetings troubleshooting audio and video issues.
“Your organization has blocked this action”
I mean this is my work phone, and I’m trying to copy a customer’s phone number from a spreadsheet to the dialer, but thanks man.
The file/document integration is based on SharePoint. Shit built on top of a nice pile of manure
Edit: and don’t get me started on the teams android app which requires access to all your media if you try to share a single image. If you share it as a file attachment however it’s completely fine. No you’re not getting access to my files and pictures MS, keep your filthy adware fingers off my data
It’s still better than WebEx because I don’t have to log in to that piece of shit software to start a video call.
The fact that me and a coworker can’t both share our screens at the same time is absolutely batshit. 1x1 collaboration isn’t even reasonable, nevermind anything more
i hate ms with every fiber of my being, but teams has gotten better. it used to be practically unusable. now its just mostly so
There’s a huge Teams outage right now. I have to use it at work and it makes me want to jump face first into a wood chipper.
Is that regional? Ours is working fine out in the midwest.
Must be.
My company is currently forcibly migrating off of Slack to Teams. It’s so heartbreaking…
You’re in for a world of shit.
We used to use it before switching to Google Workspace (don’t get me started on how much I hate that), and Teams wasn’t too bad. But it had two things going for it then:
- It was replacing Skype for Business which never should existed because it was so awful. Compared to SfB, literally anything was an improvement.
- At the time, it was basically a Slack clone that didn’t have everything and the kitchen sink bolted on yet and was decently lightweight if you used the browser version.
I’m still convinced the turning point was when Microsoft deprecated Skype for Business and merged the devs from that team with the ones working on Teams. My tinfoil hat theory is they brought their garbage Lync code with them and pulled seniority to somehow jam it into the new codebase.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire!
To be fair, you are right about SfB. My previous job used that
Maybe I’m remembering early/beta Teams with rose tinted spectacles, but at the very least the silver lining was that I no longer needed to keep a separate Windows machine running just for work IM.
I even tried adding it to Citrix, but it refused to install on a server version of Windows.
I do not believe anyone at Microsoft actually uses it because if they did there’s no way in hell that they would have let it be that bad.
It literally keeps every single conversation you’ve ever had in a big long list on the left, with absolutely no way to organize it, categorize it, order it, or in any way manage it other than deleting history, that’s it you can delete history.
Microsoft’s design philosophy in any of their products has gone from well organized menus to relying instead on a search bar. Copilot is a further addition to that design, with yet more pushes to never use a menu, but instead just tell it what you want and have it spit it back out. They want everything you make to go on OneDrive as well, so it can also be indexed this way. Teams works the same way. The big search bar at the top is unavoidable.
Windows search is complete garbage, which you might think is a counterpoint, but instead it’s just that they only put work into having it serve results for cloud-indexed items or web results.
There’s a program called “Everything” which is basically just a functional version of Windows search. It’s one of those programs that really should be integrated into the OS but isn’t. The other one being Fences.
Everything is lovely. Fences is definitely user preference though. I’m too generally disorganized to make use of it
That’s my primary gripe too. I could theoretically work around it if the chat search worked. I’ll try searching for a specific word to see who said it to me and when, but if it was more than a couple days ago I’m out of luck. Later I’ll remember who said it, eventually find them in the sidebar, scroll up 40 pages in the chat, and find the exact word Teams claimed it’s never heard of.
It literally keeps every single conversation you’ve ever had in a big long list on the left,
Not all of them, actually. I regularly have to use the search function to find chats/groups I haven’t used in a bit. The most organization you can do is the dozen pinned threads they let you have.
with absolutely no way to organize it, categorize it, order it, or in any way manage it other than deleting history
But you can pin any chat and you can reorder any pinned chat (and maybe even non-pinned ones - I haven’t checked).
But only 15. Yeah, I hit that limit regularly. I just want to put things in folders. That would be a major improvement.
I want to be able to label chats. I don’t know who Sammy Gupta is, I know we must have spoken to them at some point but it was 2 years ago and I don’t remember who they are, what their role or responsibility is, or anything about them.
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Wouldn’t the folder structure kind of defeat the purpose of the messenger vs mail?
Not when you’re expected to use it as a texting/messenger device for work. I have so many threads and DMs through it that I truly need to make it more organized. I’m not alone.
I think when I said stuff you weren’t thinking of threads and chats but that’s what I meant. Apologies.
I mean, when you need to operate chats via folder structure, wouldn’t it make Оutlook out of it?
Not when you need real time chats, no.
I believe they will never allow users to delete entire chats like that because it will cause mass panic for users and managers, particularly. You already have users doing dumb shit like deleting files accidentally. And more than that, you’ll have managers getting upset that users may be doing it on purpose like “omg I never saw that message! 😱 “
Deleting your own stuff is easy and okayed because it’s not an easy process and it involves multiple steps.
I know someone working there. I was in a few group calls he organised using teams where I used an anonymous login. Then Microsoft forced you to make an account to use it, so I declined after that.
I’ve had nothing but issues with it since their “upgrade” over the last year or so. It keeps cycling between the new and old versions when I open it, it often closes itself on my PC, and every time I try to pin it to my Taskbar it disappears.
i had this exact issue until i wiped my machine this summer and it refreshed into a full win11 after the crowdstrike debacle
This is a shared workstation PC at my job so I’ll have to just continue to deal with it.
The auto closing is driving me insane.
I have 3 different computers I use on a daily and each of them encounter this issue multiple times each week. A meeting starts and I have to go start up Teams and wait for it to fully open to join the call. Or I have someone cold call me and I don’t get the call on my computer and won’t even after opening Teams.
They can do a full refresh and release new features to make it look pretty but nothing has been done to address this issue that has been ongoing since day 1 of this “new Teams” refresh.
Spoken like a person who isn’t forced to use JIRA
