What a silly article. 700,000 per day is ~256 million a year. Thats peanuts compared to the 10 billion they got from MS. With no new funding they could run for about a decade & this is one of the most promising new technologies in years. MS would never let the company fail due to lack of funding, its basically MS’s LLM play at this point.
When you get articles like this, the first thing you should ask is “Who the fuck is Firstpost?”
Yeah where the hell do these posters find these articles anyway? It’s always from blogs that repost stuff from somewhere else
The difference is in who gets the ad money.
Openai biggest spending is infrastructure, Whis is rented from… Microsoft. Even if the company fold, they will have given back to Microsoft most of the money invested
MS is basically getting a ton of equity in exchange for cloud credits. That’s a ridiculously good deal for MS.
While title is click bite, they do say right at the beginning:
*Right now, it is pulling through only because of Microsoft’s $10 billion funding *
Pretty hard to miss, and than they go to explain their point, which might be wrong, but still stands. 700k i only one model, there are others and making new ones and running the company. It is easy over 1B a year without making profit. Still not significant since people will pour money into it even after those 10B.
I mean, you’re correct in the sense Microsoft basically owns their ass at this point, and that Microsoft doesn’t care if they make a loss because it’s sitting on a mountain of cash. So one way or another Microsoft is getting something cool out of it. But at the same time it’s still true that OpenAI’s business plan was unsustainable hyped hogwash.
Their business plan got Microsoft to drop 10 billion dollars on them.
None of my shitty plans have pulled that off.
If they got any of that into their own pockets kudos to them.
Mainly they used it to pay for the tech and research and it’s all reverting back to Microsoft eventually. Going bankrupt is not quite the same as being acquired.
Also, their biggest expenses are cloud expenses, and they use the MS cloud, so that basically means that Microsoft is getting a ton of equity in a hot startup in exchange for cloud credits which is a ridiculously good deal for MS. Zero chance MS would let them fail.
Almost every company uses either Google or Microsoft Office products and we already know that they’re working on an AI offering/solution for O365 integration, they can see the writing on the wall here and are going to profit massively as they include it in their E5 license structure or invent a new one that includes AI. Then they’ll recoup that investment in months.
There’s no way Microsoft is going to let it go bankrupt.
If there’s no path to make it profitable, they will buy all the useful assets and let the rest go bankrupt.
Microsoft reported profitability in their AI products last quarter, with a substantial gain in revenue from it.
It won’t take long for them to recoup their investment in OpenAI.
If OpenAI has been more responsible in how they released ChatGPT, they wouldn’t be facing this problem. Just completely opening Pandora’s box because they were racing to beat everyone else out was extremely irresponsible and if they go bankrupt because of it then whatever.
There’s plenty of money to be made in AI without everyone just fighting over how to do it in the most dangerous way possible.
I’m also not sure nVidia is making the right decision trying their company to AI hardware. Sure, they’re making mad money right now, but just like the crypto space that can dry up instantly.
I don’t think you’re right about nvidia. Their hardware is used for SO much more than AI. They’re fine.
Plus their own AI products are popping off rn. DLSS and their frame generation one (I forget the name) are really popular in the gaming space.
I think they also have a new DL-based process for creating stencils for silicon photolithography which, in my limited knowledge, seems like a huge deal.
Couldn’t they charge a subscription? Or sell credits?
Genuine question.
That’s $260 million .There are 360 million paid seats of MS360. So they’d have to raise their prices $0.73 per year to cover the cost.
So they’ll raise the cost by $100/yr.
A no brainier.
You mean 365 right? Or is there another MS product I’m unaware of?
Not trying to be a dick, I really don’t know given how expansive they are.
That would explain why ChatGPT started regurgitating cookie-cutter garbage responses more often than usual a few months after launch. It really started feeling more like a chatbot lately, it almost felt talking to a human 6 months ago.
I don’t think it does. I doubt it is purely a cost issue. Microsoft is going to throw billions at OpenAI, no problem.
What has happened, based on the info we get from the company, is that they keep tweaking their algorithms in response to how people use them. ChatGPT was amazing at first. But it would also easily tell you how to murder someone and get away with it, create a plausible sounding weapon of mass destruction, coerce you into weird relationships, and basically anything else it wasn’t supposed to do.
I’ve noticed it has become worse at rubber ducking non-trivial coding prompts. I’ve noticed that my juniors have a hell of a time functioning without access to it, and they’d rather ask questions of seniors rather than try to find information our solutions themselves, replacing chatbots with Sr devs essentially.
A good tool for getting people on ramped if they’ve never coded before, and maybe for rubber ducking in my experience. But far too volatile for consistent work. Especially with a Blackbox of a company constantly hampering its outputs.
As a Sr. Dev, I’m always floored by stories of people trying to integrate chatGPT into their development workflow.
It’s not a truth machine. It has no conception of correctness. It’s designed to make responses that look correct.
Would you hire a dev with no comprehension of the task, who can not reliably communicate what their code does, can not be tasked with finding and fixing their own bugs, is incapable of having accountibility, can not be reliably coached, is often wrong and refuses to accept or admit it, can not comprehend PR feedback, and who requires significantly greater scrutiny of their work because it is by explicit design created to look correct?
ChatGPT is by pretty much every metric the exact opposite of what I want from a dev in an enterprise development setting.
Search engines aren’t truth machines either. StackOverflow reputation is not a truth machine either. These are all tools to use. Blind trust in any of them is incorrect. I get your point, I really do, but it’s just as foolish as believing everyone using StackOverflow just copies and pastes the top rated answer into their code and commits it without testing then calls it a day. Part of mentoring junior devs is enabling them to be good problem solvers, not just solving their problems. Showing them how to properly use these tools and how to validate things is what you should be doing, not just giving them a solution.
I agree with everything you just said, but i think that without greater context it’s maybe still unclear to some why I still place chatGPT in a league of it’s own.
I guess I’m maybe some kind of relic from a bygone era, because tbh I just can’t relate to the “I copied and pasted this from stack overflow and it just worked” memes. Maybe I underestimate how many people in the industry are that fundamentally different from how we work.
Google is not for obtaining code snippets. It’s for finding docs, for troubleshooting error messages, etc.
If you have like… Design or patterning questions, bring that to the team. We’ll run through it together with the benefits of having the contextual knowledge of our problem domain, internal code references, and our deployment architecture. We’ll all come out of the conversation smarter, and we’re less likely to end up needing to make avoidable pivots later on.
The additional time required to validate a chatGPT generated piece of code could have instead been spent invested in the dev to just do it right and to properly fit within our context the first time, and the dev will be smarter for it and that investment in the dev will pay out every moment forward.
I guess I see your point. I haven’t asked ChatGPT to generate code and tried to use it except for once ages ago but even then I didn’t really check it and it was a niche piece of software without many examples online.
Don’t underestimate C levels who read a Bloomberg article about AI to try and run their entire company off of it…then wonder why everything is on fire.
Would you hire a dev with no comprehension of the task, who can not reliably communicate what their code does, can not be tasked with finding and fixing their own bugs, is incapable of having accountibility, can not be reliably coached, is often wrong and refuses to accept or admit it, can not comprehend PR feedback, and who requires significantly greater scrutiny of their work because it is by explicit design created to look correct?
Not me, but my boss would… wait a minute…
Honestly once ChatGPT started giving answers that consistently don’t work I just started googling stuff again because it was quicker and easier than getting the AI to regurgitate stack overflow answers.
Removed by mod
Copilot is pretty amazing for day to day coding, although I wonder if a junior dev might get led astray with some of its bad ideas, or too dependent on it in general.
Edit: shit, maybe I’m too dependent on it.
I’m also having a good time with copilot
Considering asking my company to pay for the subscription as I can justify that it’s worth it.
Yes many times it is wrong but even if it it’s only 80% correct at least I get a suggestion on how to solve an issue. Many times it suggest a function and the code snippet has something missing but I can easily fix it or improve it. Without I would probably not know about that function at all.
I also want to start using it for documentation and unit tests. I think there it’s where it will really be useful.
Btw if you aren’t in the chat beta I really recommend it
But what did they expect would happen, that more people would subscribe to pro? In the beginning I thought they just wanted to survey-farm usage to figure out what the most popular use cases were and then sell that information or repackage use-cases as an individual added-value service.
I am unsure about the free version, but I really am very surprised by how good the paid version with the code interpreter has gotten in the last 4-6weeks. Feels like I have a c# syntax guru on 24/7 access. Used to make lots of mistakes a couple months ago, but rarely does now and if it does it almost always fixes in in the next code edit. It has saved my untold hours.
Link?
https://openai.com. You have to pay to get the code interpreter as it is part of the plus access. Worth it for me.
Thanks. I’ll have a look
I mean apart from the fact it’s not sourced or whatever, it’s standard practice for these tech companies to run a massive loss for years while basically giving their product away for free (which is why you can use openAI with minimal if any costs, even at scale).
Once everyone’s using your product over competitors who couldn’t afford to outlast your own venture capitalists, you can turn the price up and rake in cash since you’re the biggest player in the market.
It’s just Uber’s business model.
The difference is that the VC bubble has mostly ended. There isn’t “free money” to keep throwing at a problem post-pan. That’s why there’s an increased focus on Uber (and others) making a profit.
In this case, Microsoft owns 49% of OpenAI, so they’re the ones subsidizing it. They can also offer at-cost hosting and in-roads into enterprise sales. Probably a better deal at this point than VC cash.
This is what caused spez at Reddit and Musk at Twitter to go into desperation mode and start flipping tables over. Their investors are starting to want results now, not sometime in the distant future.
I don’t know anything about anything, but part of me suspects that lots of good funding is still out there, it’s just being used more quietly and more scrupulously, & not being thrown at the first microdosing tech wanker with a great elevator pitch on how they’re going to make “the Tesla of dental floss”.
Speaking of Uber, I believe it turned a profit the first time this year. That is, it never made any profit since its creation in whenever it was created.
All it’s every done is rob from it’s employees so it can give money to stockholders. Just like every corporation.
If AI was so great, it would find a solution to operate at fraction of the cost it does now
Wait, has anybody bothered to ask AI how to fix itself? How much Avocado testing does it do? Can AI pull itself up by its own boot partition, or does it expect the administrator to just give it everything?
Really says something that none of your responses yet seem to have caught that this was a joke.
The upvotes vs comments shows the vocal minority is just doing vocal minority things.
OP might have been intending it as a joke, but self-improvement is a very real subject of AI research so if that’s the case he accidentally said something about a serious topic.
It’s an essential part of the idea of the technological singularity. An AI iterates itself and the systems it runs on, becoming more efficient, powerful, and effective at a rate that makes all of human progress up to that point look like nothing.
While I’m inclined to believe the singularity is achievable, it’s important to remember that there’s no evidence today that it will ever be reached.
Our hope for it, and the good than can come with it, can’t pull it into the realm of things we will see in our lifetimes. It could emerge soon, but it’s at least as likely to stay science fiction for another millennia.
Yeah, when chat gpt 4 first came out, I thought we might be close. But as it’s capabilities and limitations became more clear, it doesn’t look like we’re close at all. I mean, it’s hard to say for sure since an LLM will just make up a part of an AI and maybe the other pieces are farther along but just not getting as much attention because there’s value in not making those things public.
But as someone who works in one of the fields that would be involved in the technological singularity, no one really knows good ways to apply AI to the work we do and the best initiatives I’ve seen come out of the corporate drive to leverage AI aren’t actually AI, but just smarter automation tools.
if we don’t know, it doesn’t know.
If we know, but there’s no public text about it, it doesn’t know either.
it is trained off of stuff that has already been written, and trained to emulate the statistical properties of those words. It cannot and will not tell us anything new
That’s not true. These models aren’t just regurgitating text that they were trained on. They learn the patterns and concepts in that text, and they’re able to use those to infer things that weren’t explicitly present in the training data.
I read recently about some researchers who were experimenting with ChatGPT’s ability to do basic arithmetic. It’s not great at it, but it’s definitely figured out some techniques that allow it to answer math problems that were not in its training set. It gets them wrong sometimes, but it’s like a human doing math in its head rather than a calculator using rigorous algorithms so that’s to be expected.
they learn statistical correlations between words. given the last 5000 (or however large the context is) words, and absolutely no other information besides that, what is the most likely word to appear next? It’s a glorified order 5000 markov chain.
The reason it can “do” some math is that there are tons of examples in the training set using small numbers usually used as examples. it can do basic arithmetic because it has seen “2+2=4” and other examples with simple numbers like that. The studies used test basic arithmetic. The same things that it had millions of pre-worked examples of. And it still gets those wrong, with astonishing frequency. those studies aren’t talking about asking it “what is the square root of pi” or stuff like that. but stuff such as “is 7 greater than 4?”, “what is 10 + 3?”, “is 97 prime?” stuff it has most definitely seen the answers to. ask it about some large prime, and it’ll nay no, and be probably right, because most numbers are composite
those studies aren’t talking about asking it “what is the square root of pi” or stuff like that. but stuff such as “is 7 greater than 4?”, “what is 10 + 3?”, “is 97 prime?” stuff it has most definitely seen the answers to.
No, they very explicitly checked to see whether the training set contains the literal math problem that they asked it for the answer to. ChatGPT is able to answer math questions that it has never seen before. I believe this is the article (though I had to go searching, it’s been a while).
When people dismiss LLMs as “just prediction engines” they’re really missing the point. Of course they’re prediction engines, that’s not in dispute. The question is about how they go about making those predictions. When I show you the string “18 + 10 =” you can predict what comes next, yes? Well, how did you predict it? Did you memorize that particular specific string, or have you developed heuristics for how to do simple addition problems when you see them?
These things are currently infamously bad at math, though.
I won’t argue that it’ll never get there. I’m confident it will, - though with a lot more perl hacks than elegant emergence.
But today, these things have an astonishingly high ‘appearance of intelligence’ to ‘incredible stupidity’ ratio.
Humans are also not particularly well known for their math skills. Ask a random stranger to do simple arithmetic in their head, with only a few seconds to think and no outside help, and I wouldn’t expect particularly reliable results.
It gives me the giggles that folks speculating are getting more upvotes than your post that demonstrates actual understanding of the implementation details.
If I were the type to sell sizzle hype and snake oil, now would be the time to do it. The venture capitalists may have learned their lesson, but the general public haven’t.
It doesn’t “know” anything. It can’t solve that problem. It’s trained on humans so it’s limited to what we have written down.
I love ChatGPT but if it’s creative it’s because you asked it the right questions and found an oblique answer yourself.
It’s working on it. It’s just a pretty difficult task to be better than 50 years of optimization by human computer scientists https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01883-4
Deepmind is actually working on an AI that improve performances of low level programs. It started with improving sorting algorithm.
It’s an RL algorithm.
Main issue is that everything takes time, and expectations on current AI are artificially inflated.
It will reach the point most are discussing now, it’ll simply take a bit longer than people expect
Clickbait crap.
It’s Firstpost, their Kremlin-bootlicking YouTube videos are even worse. Just below Forbes Breaking News trash.
Yup. Uber was burning 10x of it
$7 million a day!?
Edit: it seems that is approximately correct. Wow
Glad I’m not there only one to think that
huh, so with the 10bn from Microsoft they should be good for… just over 30 years!
ChatGPT has the potential to make Bing relevant and unseat Google. No way Microsoft pulls funding. Sure, they might screw it up, but they’ll absolutely keep throwing cash at it.
They seems to be killing Cortana… So I expect a new assistant at least based partially on this tbh.
Wow I am so much worried about a company that is funded by Microsoft going bankrupt!
They don’t “go bankrupt”. Even if it happens, it’s more let than going.
Company go bankrupt, biggest investors take assets and IP at discount. Win.
This article has been flagged on HN for being clickbait garbage.
It is clearly no sense. But it satisfies the irrational needs of the masses to hate on AI.
Tbf I have no idea why. Why do people hate a extremely clever family of mathematical methods, which highlight the brilliance of human minds. But here we are. Casually shitting on one of the highest peak humanity has ever reached
Because it’s just the same as autocomplete on your phone lol so whatevs.
/s
It seems to be a common thing. I gave up on /r/futurology and /r/technology over on Reddit long ago because it was filled with an endless stream of links to cool new things with comment sections filled with nothing but negativity about those cool new things. Even /r/singularity is drifting that way. And so it is here on the Fediverse too, the various “technology” communities are attracting a similar userbase.
Sure, not everything pans out. But that’s no excuse for making all of these communities into reflections of /r/nothingeverhappens. Technology does change, sometimes in revolutionary ways. It’d be nice if there was a community that was more upbeat about that.
I probably sound like I hate it, but I’m just giving my annual “this new tech isn’t the miracle it’s being sold as” warning, before I go back to charging folks good money to clean up the mess they made going “all in” on the last one.
People are scared because it will make consolidation of power much easier, and make many of the comfyer jobs irrelevant. You can’t strike for better wages when your employer is already trying to get rid of you.
The idealist solution is UBI but that will never work in a country where corporations have a stranglehold on the means of production.
Hunger shouldn’t be a problem in a world where we produce more food with less labor than anytime in history, but it still is, because everything must have a monetary value, and not everyone can pay enough to be worth feeding.
I agree with this. People should fight to democratize AI, public model, public data, public fair research. And should fight misuse of it from business schools’ type of guys.
Flagged where?
Hacker News
I was also curious about that, chatgpt says hacker news and that makes sense to me.
HN is biased towards AI though so 🤷
Pretty sure Microsoft will be happy to come save the day and just buy out the company.
it feels like, that was the plan all along
A couple of my coworkers will have to write their own code again and start reading documentation
75% of that code must not work lol
It works if you ask it for small specific components, the bigger the scope of the request, the less likely it will give you anything worthwhile.
So basically you still need to know what you’re doing and how to design a script/program anyway, and you’re just using chatgpt to figure out the syntax.
It’s a bit of time-saver at times but it’s not replacing anyone in the immediate future.
I’ve tried using it myself and the responses I get, no matter how I phrase them, are too vague in most places to be useful. I have yet to get anything better than what I’ve found in documentation.
My experience is different, the response I get is not perfect but it’s good enough to be a start for any decent dev to refactor and build upon with lesser effort than from scratch. Maybe it depends on what language or framework you’re asking for.
I have problems with it repeating certain words over and over again no matter how much I adjust the style and tone.
This article is dumb as shit
No sources and even given their numbers they could continue running chatgpt for another 30 years. I doubt they’re anywhere near a net profit but they’re far from bankruptcy.
Right!? I believe it has the hallmark repetitive blandness indicating AI wrote it (because oroboros)
The flow of the writing style felt kinda off, like someone was speaking really fast spewing random trivia and leaving
I don’t understand Lemmy’s hate boner over AI.
Yeah, it’s probably not going to take over like companies/investors want, but you’d think it’s absolutely useless based on the comments on any AI post.
Meanwhile, people are actively making use of ChatGPT and finding it to be a very useful tool. But because sometimes it gives an incorrect response that people screenshot and post to Twitter, it’s apparently absolute trash…
Lemmy and Mastodon to a larger extent hate anything owned by a corporation. That voice is getting more and more louder by the day.
It’s just projection of the hate for techbros (especially celebrities like Musk). Everything that techbros love (crypto, ai, space, etc) is hated automatically.
I.e. they don’t really hate AI. You can’t hate something if you have zero understanding what that something is. It’s just an expression of hate for someone who promotes that something.AI is not good. I want to be good, but it’s not.
I’ll clarify, it’s basically full of nonsense. Half of the shit it spits out is nonsense, and the rest is questionable. Even with that, it’s already being used to put people out of their jobs.
Techbros think AI will run rampant and kill all humans, when they’re the ones killing people by replacing them with shitty AI. And the worst part is that it isn’t even good at the jobs it’s being used for. It makes shit up, it plagiarizes, it spits out nonsense. And a disturbing amount of the internet is starting to become AI generated. Which is also a problem. See, AI is trained on the wider internet, and now AI is being trained on the shitty output of AI. Which will lead to fun problems and the collapse of the AI. Sadly, the jobs taken by AI will not come back.
It’s definitely gone down hill recently, but at the launch of gpt4 it was pretty incredible. It would make several logical jumps that a lot of actual people probably wouldn’t make. I remember my “wow moment” was asking how many M&M’s would fit in a typical glass milk jug, and then I measured it myself (by weight) and got an answer about 8% off. It gave measurements and cited actual equations. I couldn’t find anything through Google that solved the same problem or had the same answer that it could have just copied. It was supposed to be bad at math, but gpt4 got those types of problems pretty much spot on for me.
I think that most people who have tried the latest AI models have had a bad experience because its power is distributed over more users.
There’s also the issue of model collapse, when the AI is trained on data generated by AI, the errors and hallucinations start to compound until all you have left is gibberish. We’re about halfway there.
I feel like you’re undereducated on how and when AI models are trained. Especially for the gpt model, it’s not “constantly learning” like other models. It’s being tweaked in discreet increments by developers trying to cover their ass, and get it to less frequently say things they can be sued for.
Also, AI are already training other AI, that’s kinda how AI are made… There’s an AI that detects how well a given phrase follows another phrase, and that’s used to train the part of the AI you interact with. (arguably they are part of the same whole, depending on how you view the architecture)
CGP gray has a good into video on how bots learn, it’s pretty outdated and not really applicable to how LLMs learn, but the general idea is still there.
ChatGPT is trained on data with a cutoff in September 2021. It’s not training on AI-generated data.
Even if some AI-generated data is included, as long as it’s reasonably curated and it’s mixed with non-AI data model collapse can be avoided.
“Model collapse” is starting to feel like just a keyword for “this AI isn’t as good as I wanted.”
Does it feel like these “game changing” techs have lives that are accelerating? Like there’s the dot com bubble of a decade or so, the NFT craze that lasted a few years, and now AI that’s not been a year.
The Internet is concentrating and getting worse because of it, inundated with ads and bots and bots who make ads and ads for bots, and being existentially threatened by Google’s DRM scheme. NFTs have become a joke, and the vast majority of crypto is not far behind. How long can we play with this new toy? Its lead paint is already peeling.
And don’t forget the metaverse!
I read an article about the bot collapse. Basically companies use bot to buy add space on websties. Google uses a bot to match adds to websites. Now we have a massive influx of AI made pages. Literally pages of bs just to make more add space that a bot will sell to another not. It is bots all the way down.
I wouldn’t put nfts in the same boat as the dotcom bust. The dotcom thing was way bigger. Most people didn’t do anything with nfts. Crypto seems in between. The AI thing seems similar though.
This AI craze is actually a crypto craze in disguise https://apnews.com/article/worldcoin-cryptocurrency-sam-altman-data-privacy-9dc6a68590435b2f10fedaa0db58331b
As for the pace, I think the US financial services industry has been on a growth spree for decades and they’re desperate to find the new thing that will make them money. It’s like ed edd & eddy but with the PC, internet, dotcom, internet service, social media and now crypto
What?
That has nothing to do with chatgpt or other ai…
Sam altman, CEO of OpenAI, has nothing to do with chatgpt?
Cryptocurrency has nothing to do with AI. They are completely different technologies.
I never said they weren’t lmao, LLM tech =/= the hype around them, including you
Wtf are you trying to say?
shilling
The AI craze is much further reaching than an crypto. Reducing it to just crypto is way too simple.
This is alarming…
One of the things companies have started doing lately is signaling “we could do bankrupt”, then jumping ahead a stage on enshittification
I don’t think OpenAI needs any excuses to enshittify, they’ve been speedrunning ever since they decided they liked profit instead of nonprofit.
Microsoft gave them 10 billion moneys. They’ll be fine.
That’s not what I said.
Money doesn’t mean shit - enshittification is about potential cash flow
I’m not arguing with you. Chill.
