Maybe it's time to move on from using SSNs for security? We have someting similar in Sweden - "person numbers". If I call the tax authority and ask for someone's "person number" they will tell me. They're not secret in any way, and thus not used as some form of authentication either.
this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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The old social security cards had "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" printed on them for a reason.
This. It is so shocking that they just get used as a harder ID than actual ID. Someone didn't get the memo. And by "someone", I mean corporations who haven't had real consequences in 50 years.
They were never actually meant for identification, just got pigeonholed into that role because the government couldn't get support for a national citizen ID or the equivalent. We absolutely need something, but every republican will scream that, "it's a way for the government to track us and limit out freedoms!" and it will be shot down.
The peak of irony considering the porn age ID verification laws and abortion bans they impose on people living in the states they control.
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But how exactly does it work when applying for something like a credit card or going to a doctors office and filling out a form? Because here in the US those ask for SSN
They ask for SSN because there is no other form of national ID in the US (by design). SSNs were not introduced with this use in mind in fact they were explicitly meant to not be used this way, but society has slowly twisted it into a de facto national ID.
what was meant to be used then?
To track contributions and withdrawals to the social security system. Pretty much everyone in enrolled, so pretty much everyone has an SSN.
Americans explicitly didn't want a national ID.
We really are kinda fuckin dumb in the US. It's like we're equally deeply suspicious of our government but too dumb to understand how it works so we ends up with blind, ignorant cynicism
And yet we have multiple of them now. Drivers license, SSN, and if you/your parent are/were military, EDIPI/DoDID.
Military, sure, but driver's licenses are state-level, not federal. Health care has been using birthdate like a password (one that is largely publicly available) for way too long now. At least financial institutions can use account numbers and financial history and code words, but even all that isn't great.
It's a messy patchwork, but I think at the time of the creation of the SSA, the US may have still thought of itself as a land of second chances. IBM numbering Holocaust victims probably didn't help the idea of a national ID, nor did the victim narrative of groups like the NRA.
I'm not sure if it's possible not to have a national ID anymore, so denial of it just forces a terribly kludgy implementation from whatever is around.
drivers licenses are state-level
Are they though, with RealID requirements for new licenses now?
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Nordics have resolved this by having the strong digital authentication. Services like banks and tele operators work as identity providers for individuals/companies.either through mobile network or app on your phone, and these is a central service that links these together.
This way third parties can safely identify you, and also it follows same OpenID/OAuth2.0/MFA principles, which are industry standards.
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It's a massive pain in the ass, but every American should freeze their credit with the 3 agencies. Their websites are shit, they will sign you up for credit card ads no matter what you click, and every bit of the process will make you seethe with rage at how fucked and incompetent the whole system is. But go do it anyway.
I did it last year after the state DMV was hacked and lost every personal detail for basically everyone in the state who drives. It was real nice not having a loan taken out in my name a few months later when Experien called me out of the blue to ask if I really wanted to unfreeze.
I also did have to legit take out a loan later and it was easy. Just call one of the agencies and do a temporary unfreeze for 24 hours. Amazingly, they let you unfreeze to take out more loans very simply. Wonder why it's so hard to freeze in the first place? Almost like they don't give a shit who's creating the debts as long as some poor somewhere can be held to account for it.
And the "Experian Alerts - Your Monthly Account Statement is here!" e-mails that you can't disable, because they, and others, figured out how to get around the CAN-SPAM act by claiming the spam is "alerts related to your account" and not just advertising covered in pig lipstick.
Places to remove yourself from, including the big three:
It’s so incompetent because they are federally required to offer the freeze service for free. They all also offer a paid subscription freezing service that’s much more convenient, and they are trying to frustrate you into paying for what they are required to offer for free.
they are trying to frustrate you into paying for what they are required to offer for free
It's like the coin-operated tire pumps at convenience stores that have a switch on the back that will turn them on for nothing - since in many states tire pumps are required to be offered free of charge.
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100% this.
Freeze credit on the big 3 websites. I unfreeze when needed like when I financed my car, then lock them up again.
It is a pain, and be sure not to lose the passwords. Turn on MFA where ever possible. Do not use correct answers for secret questions, use made up answers and keep track with a pw manager.
Check your credit every year for mistakes or oddities.
If you live in California, contact data brokers like Lexus Nexus or Red Violet and have them delete your profile.
God I hate modern society.
What's to stop someone from in unfreezing your credit if they literally know everything about you and have all the info at their fingertips
It's like running away from a bear... you don't have to outrun the bear, just the other people running from the bear. If someone wants your identity, they're probably gonna get it if they're determined enough. The way these hacks usually work, though, is you just buy a chunk of the data, maybe 10k records. Then, they use automated tools to try and open accounts under those ID records. If it fails, no biggie, they just move on to the next record.
There's no such thing as perfect security of course, but in this case it's because having my phone number and address isn't the same as having my phone. So short of a SIM clone or something like that, the MFA on those accounts still adds one layer of protection. There's also "security" questions and, protip, the answer to what high school I went to is not which high school I went to. It's just another, different pass phrase.
I'm just not worth the trouble to beat all the extra layers of security when there's millions of people who's money is far easier to get at.
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They have to know to unfreeze. It's an extra step, and unless you're a particularly juicy target, it's easier to move onto the next one.
/guess
Unfreeze also generally requires a PIN or tied to a login/accessible email. So not only would they need your info, they’d also need your credentials.
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It's considerably easier using the websites vs. their apps. Don't forget to enable 2FA!
It’s not that big of a pain. It took me just a few minutes to make the accounts and then freeze everything. I already get credit card ads in the mail, so what else is new, and everything in my email goes to the spam folder.
I’ve had three security breaches in the last year or so. I think of you have any sort of accounts anywhere at this point part, or all, of your identity is out there.
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Throw it on the pile of data breaches affecting me (and most Americans).
I don't know why I even bother lowering my voice when I have to give my SSN to someone. You could probably just google it anyway.
How often do you have to give it out loud. Not American but I basically never have to utter our equivalent.
I had to give it out loud to get a one day fishing license in the state of Ohio. After filling out a ton of info including my ssn on the Ohio dept of natural resources website, I found out the website credit card processor wasn’t working. I went to a local bait shop and had to give my SSN out loud to get a license.
I was like well, I guess I’ll blindly trust this stranger not to fuck over my life now that he has my secret number. The United States habit of basing your identity off your SSN is so incredibly stupid.
Depends what service you're interacting with. Typically it's government services that need it, but sometimes banks or other financial outlets.
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Where’s my check
Lol, right. The best the inevitable class-action will get you is a coupon for 10% off one year of credit monitoring.
With purchase of eligible credit monitoring plan.
...from one of our partner affiliated monitoring companies.
The recommendation in the article was to freeze my credit reports. Fucking awesome. Equifax locked me out for 24 hours trying to access my account and Experian won't even let me access my account because their website is apparently unable to text me a four-digit code. Now I have to call and deal with customer service for both of them. At least TransUnion let me do it almost immediately.
Having to deal with this inevitable shitshow is the only reason I haven't done this yet. Every interaction I've ever had with these two companies has been a dumpster fire.
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In the sense of "Simpsons did it!":
Equifax did it first.
Sure wish the massive corporate incompetence and malfeasance causing huge data leaks multiple times over the years would get mentioned every time one of these stories comes up.
Hackers did blah, this WOULD ALMOST matter, but!
We need to start redirecting some of those board bonuses and CEO dollars back into infrastructure to actually secure this shit as a required responsibility and stop places from being allowed to request personal information they shouldn't have.
These companies should be paying fines in the BILLIONS of dollars for their malfeasance. I got a notice from work this morning, this is horrifying.
Social Security Numbers are such a weird thing. Over here we've got an official rijksregisternummer that you get assigned at birth by the state and can be used to identify you. For some reason the USA decided that something like this is against their Freedoms ©®™, but when an agency gave people numbers for something completely different, that was never build to identify everyone in the country, everyone decided this is great to identify everyone in the country, so now everyone uses this system for something it was never built for.
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The past addresses thing is kind of spooky. I once got a bequest of stock options from the company I worked for and they were claimable online. One of the ways in which they verified my identity was to have me pick out actual addresses I'd lived at in the past (one of them more than 15 years prior) from a list containing other addresses. Somebody with access to a list of my past addresses might have been able to claim my fifty grand worth of options before I did.
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All your shit was already out there. Might as well fuck up your credit before somebody else does.
Jokes on them! They probably already had mine from the Move-It hack.
Checkmate hackers.
that provides background checks for employers, investigators and other businesses that want to check people's backgrounds.
Great editing once again brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department!
Good luck with my credit score, hackers.
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