this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2024
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[–] AceBonobo@lemmy.world 215 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think Logitech should take responsibility and give them a $30 voucher

[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 202 points 3 months ago (2 children)

“best we can offer is a replacement. but you will need to return the original”

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago

I laughed way too hard at that. Bravo.

[–] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Maybe a $10 Uber Eats gift card?

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[–] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 178 points 3 months ago (23 children)

Since the story came out people fixated on "lol he used a shitty gaming controller" but really that is one of the least sketchy design choices in the entire rig. Why reinvent the wheel and make a custom set of controls that are realistically another huge expense and potential failure point, when off the shelf solutions exist for that component?

The corners that were cut are the ones involving the viewport/nose adhesion to the ships frame, and the structural integrity of the carbon fiber hull itself. They had test data suggesting it was a bad idea to engage in repeated dives with their design, and an even worse idea to operate at the depths they chose. They decided to ignore that.

[–] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 69 points 3 months ago (3 children)

That doesn't explain why they used the wireless version of that Logitech instead of wired to control the thing they were literally inside.

[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 29 points 3 months ago (4 children)

To be fair, they're under water and sharks have been known to chew through electrical cables

[–] Tricky@lemmy.world 24 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I suspect the wired cabling would be to control components inside the sub, not outside. And I say that only because it's unlikely that wireless signals would penetrate the sub walls.

[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 66 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes but with this sub the water was on the inside too

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[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 40 points 3 months ago (4 children)

From what I can tell the lawsuit (which is against Ocean Gate, not Logitech) is really just calling out the controller as another example of willfully negligent behaviour.

You're certainly correct that the actual cause of the failure was the carbon fibre hull. Just a terrible idea on so many levels. Carbon fibre, by its nature, is good under tension, not compression. It was never going to function well as a pressure vessel underwater.

There were a litany of terrible decisions made by Ocean Gate, such as not tethering the sub, because it was cheaper to launch it from a towed raft, but none of those bad decisions ultimately mattered once that pressure vessel failed. Those people were dead so fast that, to quote Scott Manley, "You go from being biology to being physics."

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[–] chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Having tried to use those, my main issue was the 710 is an unreliable 2.4ghz wireless, when bluetooth controllers all worked much better for me. I couldn't get the 710 to have reliable button presses from more than like 4 feet from my pc, so I ended up just using the 310 wired. Maybe there isn't enough interference on the sub for that to be an issue.

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[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Wasnt the carbon fiber body rated for like, 1/3rd the depth that they dove to?

It was very NASA O-Ring vibes. "We did it once, so we can do it every time" at least until they cant anymore, and that cant is usually accompanied by regret and poor innocent people being salsafied.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Carbon fiber wasn't rated for any depth. It's shit for compression and you don't need light materials for a submersible.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 134 points 3 months ago

🤦‍♂️

If anything that controller was the most solidly built thing on that entire sub.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 80 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"Rush, who saw himself as an innovator like "Steve Jobs or Elon Musk," the complaint says, once told Pogue, "At some point, safety just is pure waste." Rush thought he had found a lighter way to build subs."

This really summarizes the mindset of most second+ generation rich people. Because this guy lived with a lot of inherited money and power all his life, he assumed that everything that comes out of his brain must be the ultimate truth. So much so that without even a single reservation he happily took his son with him to that journey knowing full well that the submarine was probably violating several critical safety requirements that he deemed unnecessary. We are basically being ruled by such people folks.

[–] Neon@lemmy.world 35 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I've worked with plenty poor people who thought the exact same thing.

The only difference is that he actually had the resources to realize his stupid ideas

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[–] MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 months ago

Super accurate comment.

[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Question. Who are they actually suing? Didn't the bozo die along with everyone else? So who would hold responsibility?

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 62 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The company itself (oceangate) still exists. The estate of Stockton Rush is also named in the suit.

[–] dabaldeagul@feddit.nl 57 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It appears they are suing OceanGate, the company that made the submarine. The use of cheap, consumer grade hardware for critical functions (literally controlling the sub) is one of their criticisms.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 13 points 3 months ago (10 children)

I don't see why the controller is a problem.

If you go out and custom-make a controller, it's not likely going to be more reliable than anything that Logitech makes.

[–] bjorney@lemmy.ca 37 points 3 months ago (3 children)

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military-xbox-360-controller

US Army used to spend $38,000 per controller until they found out Xbox controllers were better

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[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago

Logitech... the company whose 150 dollar mouse have double click issues months into the purchase?

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 26 points 3 months ago

Estate, insurance companies

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 51 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't use a wireless controller playing subnautica. This is on the company for using sub par tech. Next time use first party wired!

[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 19 points 3 months ago

sub par tech

Nice pun

[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 45 points 3 months ago

Is it because everything else on the sub was ordered from aliexpress and pieced together? This was the only part from a legitimate manufacturer?

[–] Emmie@lemm.ee 44 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

This controller kept me in rocket league gold for months. I put it on eBay and some shmuck said they need it in a submarine but are on a budget so max can do is three fiddy. I just wanted to get rid of the thing

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[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 43 points 3 months ago (3 children)

The complaint does not allege that the Logitech wireless controller, the carbon fiber construction, Titan's innovative porthole, or the use of disparate materials with differing expansion/compression coefficients—four main areas of criticism—were individually responsible for the sub's implosion. But it does suggest that these systems could have together contributed to a "daisy chain of failures of multiple improperly designed or constructed parts or systems."

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 40 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Titan was an implosion, so the pressure hull failed at some point, we just don't know what. While the Logitech controller is indicative of the decision making process, it's one component we can comprehensively rule out as causing the failure.

[–] Toribor@corndog.social 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Shouldn't have put the 'implode' action on the shoulder button. It was only a matter of time before he triggered it on accident.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (4 children)

This is such a frivolous lawsuit. Logitech is going to crush them if they even have to go to trial.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 62 points 3 months ago

The article doesn't say they're suing Logitech.

It's using the fact that it was a wireless controller used over Bluetooth as part of the evidence that they created a bunch of unnecessary points of failure.

[–] Erasmus@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago

This is such a frivolous lawsuit. Logitech is going to ~~crush~~ implode them if they even have to go to trial.

There. Fixed it for you.

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[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 41 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It's true, I bought one thinking it was cheaper and easier than a PS5 controller, and my couch imploded.

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Behind the Bastards did a pretty great two-parter on Stockton Rush, and how a) he completely shit the bed while ignoring all the super-deep-exploration experts, and b) how nature was totally telegraphing to Rush and OceanGate that this submersible is totally not doing it and will end in a spectacular tragedy, only no one else will be down there to watch but the fishes.

The controller wasn't a particularly weak link, though for safety's sake I'd want there to be a redundant spare, and it set up for plug and play. But higher on my priority list would be things like integrity monitors and an emergency way to open the sub from the inside (the hatch was bolted from the outside, and there were no emergency exit measures.

[–] hexdream@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago (7 children)

To be fair, they all exited the vehicle pretty quickly at the time without it needing to be unbolted from the outside. Experts... pfft.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 16 points 3 months ago (3 children)

... How do you propose to emergency exit that sub at 1000 meters depth?

I'd say the bigger issue is that he used a carbon fibre body, a material which has great tensile Strength but sucks for this.

They way bigger issue than that is that he glued the metal rear section to the carbon fiber body. Both materials expand and contract differently under pressure, which is not what you want at 3 kilometer deep pressures, especially with multiple descends and ascends. That glue could never keep those materials together, that alone was a disaster waiting to happen

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[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 30 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Oh yeah, the controller is clearly the one a fault here......

I mean, they clearly made this for an submersible, one made of carbon fibre specifically.

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[–] Clbull@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

At this point filing a multi-million dollar lawsuit against OceanGate will be like trying to extract blood from a stone.

What tangible assets do OceanGate really have left to pay Nargeolet's estate? Their CEO (the maverick aerospace engineer who thought he was 'revolutionizing' the submarine industry by cutting corners) is dead, their only active submersible imploded, their reputation has been tainted by the fact that they've been selling billionaires what is effectively a carbon fiber coffin waiting to implode, and any angel investors have probably pulled out harder than a porn star on the verge of climax.

Even then, they may not even have a case. IANAL but in an age where every single tech and gaming company has been pushing through class action waivers and forced arbitration clauses in their Terms of Service, I get the feeling that any attempts at suing OceanGate will be thrown out of court by the waivers each passenger had to sign.

There is a sense of irony in people celebrating this disaster on social media because it means "five less billionaires in the world." No, this is potentially a massive L for us commoners, because it shows just how much corporate greed can destroy lives. If the rich can be screwed this badly by an unregulated corporation, imagine what corporate giants can do to people who can't afford lawyers.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 19 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Could be worse. Could have used a left Joy-con.

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[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

willfully get in a sub built by an idiot known to have said very weird things about safety

die

your „estate” sues the sub company for $50 million

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[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Everyone's joking here but I've owned and used an F710 since 2009 and they are ABSOLUTE CRAP.

I'm not even joking but their range is like 3 feet in the BEST conditions and their USB controller is proprietary and doesn't even work with OTHER F710s.

Anyone who's used one for more than a few hours knows this.

Why do I still use mine? Well the hand feel is amazing and the weight is perfect, but everything else is terrible and shouldn't even be used for gaming.

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[–] storcholus@feddit.org 13 points 3 months ago

but it seems likely that the Logitech controller—along with the five people on the sub—is gone forever.

Love it

[–] RangerJosie@sffa.community 12 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Pretty sure the fly by wire system isn't why the beer can imploded.

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