• Pirky@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    “The challenge is that no single cause can be identified for the declining rate.” Sure you can: capitalism.

    • exohuman@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      So true. Over and over again in the article it says that people can’t afford children and universities. It keeps saying the cost of living is up and then says there is no single cause people won’t have children.

    • Sir_Premiumhengst@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I agree with capitalism being a main cause. Additionally, many people also just don’t want to raise a child. They don’t want the added responsibilities and lack of freedom. Even people for whom capitalism works would rather enjoy their own life.

      • kofe@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I just don’t want to go through pregnancy, personally. Love kids but not enough to risk my life and permanent bodily changes. The being poor part is secondary

        • WhollyGuacamole@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          My mother had to have pelvic floor surgery after having three kids. Prior to that, she had to get her gallbladder removed shortly after my brother’s birth. Pregnancy is extremely unappealing to me, and I don’t think the long term effects of it are talked about enough.

      • bobman@unilem.org
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        1 year ago

        Even people for whom capitalism works would rather enjoy their own life.

        Is that why the ruling class has no problem having kids, usually with a bunch of different people?

        I guess you still have a point. They typically have these children and then go off to live their rich lives instead of being a parent.

    • virr@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Was going to say climate change, but really the underlying cause is capitalism there too…

    • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      So brave. What an insightful comment. If you people stub your toe you will find a way to blame capitalism. Such a vacuous statement with no real world application.

      • LuckyBoy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If people dont have enough time to spend and raise their kids, dont have enough money to raise them without despair, if they dont have where to drop them during work hours, people cant have kids.

        You really should think before doing a vacuous remark about anything.

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          “hey guys capitalism bad amirite? Haha”

          Now what? Walk us to the next step, because 99% of comments here are just declarations with no actionable framework. Give me more and I’ll listen, but if all you’ll do is repeat the same thing ad nauseam without a roadmap then people will get bored and move on.

      • bobman@unilem.org
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        1 year ago

        I can tell you’re mad he’s criticizing the system you’ve been indoctrinated to believe is flawless.

        I don’t think you’re above the behavior of saying something is ‘a vacuous statement with no real world application’ just because you don’t like what’s being said.

    • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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      1 year ago

      It is after all, the only thing you people know how to call out as a systemic issue in the world, so it might as well be solely responsible for every gripe you have I suppose huh.

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Let’s read the article and look the causes:

        “With the rising cost of living, I don’t think people feel they can afford to, or comfortably say they want to, have children,” said 23-year-old Anna Tanaka.

        In 2020, women got married for the first time at an average age of 29.4, or 3.9 years later than in 1985, government data shows.

        As people have fewer children, they are able to spend more on each child than families have in the past. That drives up the average cost of raising a child for the broader population

        Tuition at private universities jumped fivefold between 1975 and 2021, and by 19 times at public universities, data shows.

        These are all symptoms of capitalism. Alienation and seeking “class mobility” leads to people getting married later. The cost of living is a capitalist construct, and it rises primarily due to seeking profit. Colleges are also seeking to profit, and have successfully convinced people that taking debt early in life is good for individuals going into the labor pool. The debt also increases alienation and people who would have children are suddenly priced out of it due to education debt.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It’s hilarious to me that you linked this as somehow a result of capitalism

          In 2020, women got married for the first time at an average age of 29.4, or 3.9 years later than in 1985, government data shows.

          As people have fewer children, they are able to spend more on each child than families have in the past. That drives up the average cost of raising a child for the broader population

          I mean the whole post is silly but this part especially is just chef’s kiss as a response to the poster above.

          • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I explained how they were symptoms of capitalism. If you can’t understand it, then maybe you need a deeper understanding of the topic. How doesn’t it make sense?

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Having fewer children means you spend more on the fewer children, driving up average cost of raising children

              We have one President indicted 91 times so on average Presidents are indicted twice because we’ve had 46 of them.

              This is just how math works, and has nothing to do with any economic system

              • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                “average cost” can vary in meaning on this topic. I read it as “fewer people are buying goods necessary for children, leading to raised prices and a higher average cost of raising children”. Considering studies done on the cost of raising children, this is how I interpreted the quote. But your interpretation is also technically correct, and I won’t fault you for reading something differently than I did.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s the incorrect way to read this. Rather, people are spending more on their children, and people without children are seeing average cost of raising children.

                  Effectively, the standard of living for children is going up and people who feel they cannot hit that standard of living are (in Japan’s case especially) opting not to have them.

                  I assure you that poor people are still having children that survive.

      • bobman@unilem.org
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        1 year ago

        “It’s all about the money.”

        Funny how it’s always you people pretending like we have our heads in the clouds, when you don’t understand this simple fact of life yet.

        It’s okay, maybe when you’ll older you’ll get it.

        Let’s be real though. You do understand it but you want things to stay how they are. You’re afraid to come out and say it and I don’t hold you above that behavior.

        There’s a term for people like you, useful something. I can’t remember it.

      • Bipta@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Capitalism is surely partly to blame but it’s laughable to identify it as the sole cause.

        • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’ll never understand statements like these. Capitalism is the #1 reason there’s a profit incentive for any given thing to be horrible.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Workers owning a company would also have a profit incentive because the workers would like to make more money.

            • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Workers owning their own company would incentivize creating stable growth, since the workers aren’t going to willfully destroy the company they all have a stake in.

              Whereas now we have unstable growth because the C suites, executives and shareholders milk companies dry and then toss them. They have no concerns about whether the bottom rung guys are sustainable.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                You’re going to need to define “stable” and “unstable” growth here.

          • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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            1 year ago

            So it was because of capitalism that the communist revolution killed millions of people around the world.

            Uh, the more you know…

            • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              I think people define capitalism vastly differently. To some capitalism is simply the ability to trade goods for personal profit, which exists in almost every society. To others its the dictionary definition of an economic and political system.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                What you’re missing is that the first group there is populated by idiots.

              • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                That’s unfair, you made a valid point, but I’m going to make this goalposts flexible for others

                You, just now

                • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  What? I don’t even have a stake in this debate. I am just pointing out how often I notice that two people seem to be discussing entirely different ideas.

            • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Actually, yeah. Trade embargos starved those countries and the CIA killed the few real communists who managed to garner any influence, eliminating any real movements towards a marxist ideal

              • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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                1 year ago

                Ah yes, it wasn’t the expropriation and execution/imprisonment of competent farmers and the general failures of central planning, it’s all about them trade embargos.

                • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure, focus on half of what I said rather than actually read the whole thing

                  • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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                    1 year ago

                    Sure, go one and tell us who were the illuminated people touched by the grace of God that were just too powerful to wander around the Earth in the view of the CIA.

                    If it wasn’t for those pesky americans, the World would be the perfect kumbaya by now.

          • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            I don’t know where you people get this concept. Humans are the issue, not capitalism. There’s literally no functioning system of trade without capitalism. It’s just human nature. We are greedy and we want more than others so that we feel secure in our own future. It’s not fucking rocket scientist, and it’s not fucking capitalism.

            Do you really Envision a world where everyone works equally and gets paid equally and nobody makes extra profit but somehow people are happy? That doesn’t sound like any of the humans I’ve ever known, even the nice ones. You need to be a little bit more realistic and get your childish ass out of the playground.

            We couldn’t even get people to wear masks to not kill each other and you’re over here holding your breath for agapelandia lmao

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                the cost of living is a capitalist concept

                No, it isn’t. Lol

                There are fundamental costs to human survival and those costs must be borne out somewhere. Hunter/gatherers also had a cost of living.

                • bobman@unilem.org
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                  1 year ago

                  The rising disparity in wealth is a result of capitalism.

                  The cost of living is so high because we’re funneling as much money as possible to as few people as possible.

                  Every day it gets worse, and this is by design.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Disparity in wealth does not impact cost of living. That’s nonsensical.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    The things people choose to believe never cease to amaze me.

            • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              There are innumerable functioning systems of trade without capitalism. My point is capitalism is intrinsically violent and wasteful. War is profit. But there ARE mutualist, communalist, and voluntary approaches to labor as well just to name a few. I also have to point out that the gold standard in the case of USD is effectively maintained by a obscenely expansive worldwide military presence which can’t be a good thing long term and how about that ongoing pandemic we don’t talk about? How long can we as species get away with ignoring the real, big, systemic problems? Capitalism is NOT fixing them, and won’t. Regardless you’re real mistaken, I don’t envision some perfect world, dont accuse me of naivety- I’m a tired, jaded anarchist, not a communist. Anyways I am truly sorry you’ve only ever known assholes… I’m not holding my breath for anything just speaking my mind, and maybe I change someone’s, at least I tried

        • Eggyhead@artemis.camp
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          1 year ago

          Frankly it’s laughable to assert there is a sole cause in the first place when there’s a myriad of different people here with a myriad of their own personal factors at play.

        • bobman@unilem.org
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          1 year ago

          “It’s all about the money.”

          You’ll understand when you’re older.