Brave is just too shady and I hate that it’s considered a “privacy” browser by people who don’t know better.
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It’s the hype from Cryptobros pushing it because it has crypto functionally and its own shitcoin.
Personally, I never liked how it wants to monetize your browsing time constantly and pushes a lot of crypto shit in its advertising. Vivaldi is much better as an alternative imo.
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Oh, Vivaldi. I really want to love it, I love the interface and general ideas, but the fact that in 2023 they didn’t manage yet to have an app for iOS and decided to focus first on embedding an email client inside the browser throw me off the boat. Also, there were plenty of bugs often with new releases. Maybe now it’s better but a few years ago it was quite annoying.
I guess you can install whatever browser Apple lets you then.
The reason why Vivaldi is not on iOS or iPadOS is because Vivaldi hasn’t developed it, not because Apple doesn’t let them in. All the other browsers are on iOS.
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It’s as bloated as you want it. Everything’s customisable.
I used Brave for a out 6 months, but I’m really turned off by the devs. I switch to FF and am loving it. It’s much improved from when I last used in decades ago.
b
Firefox? How so?
People are still crying because Mozilla removing the security nightmare that was XUL that was an anything goes type of interface for making extensions.
I use it as my main browser and I honestly can’t go back to Firefox, but I really dislike some parts of it and of it’s community. The browser itself is fast, its default ad-blocker is awesome and there are a couple functionnalities that are nice to see, like Tor integration. But they block ads to show you their ads instead, that you cannot block even if you deactivate the “Brave Rewards”. The whole reward system in BAT is kind of shady; they need to authenticate you before you can withdraw anything and it’s worth peanuts anyway. When I complained about those issues on reddit, I got answers that looked like they were produced by sect members, and it wasn’t even on a related sub.
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I really despise Firefox because (checks notes) I, uhh… love giving Google hegemony over web standards?
Sure, I can, but it would be a hassle and I’m kind of comfortable with what I have now. The first thing that hit me when I tried to get back to firefox (a couple weeks ago) was actually the time to load a page. It felt long compared to what I am use to. Sure it’s anecdotic, but I opened a game called factoryidle that ran capped at 200 fps on Brave, it was only at 70-80 fps on Firefox. The adblocker I had installed was also inferior to Brave’s. I guess it may be due to some extensions or I don’t know, but something was wrong and I didn’t want to do the effort to fix it.
It’s like I want to believe, but as you say, I’m too lazy. I will try Ungoogled Chromium since you recommand it.
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I am forever a Firefox fan but Chromium is just faster on all my devices. Chrome without Google is great.
Can I ask where you see Brave ads? I deactivated everything and haven’t seen any of their own ads
If you use Brave News (to display a RSS feed), you get “news” about Brave’s functionnalities. They appear as any other widget in your feed, but are marked as “Advertisement” on the upper right corner. Here is an example from my feed : https://imgur.com/a/RJV2Px2 .
Looks like it’s not the case anymore, but when I opened a new tab, some time ago, I used to get ads from Binance or other cryptocurrencies exchanges displayed as “cards” on the right of the window. Right now, I only get “cards” showing about “Brave Talks” or rewards, but it used to be advertisement about other products, such as Binance or other cryptocurrency company.
I can’t reproduce it right now, but some “new tab” backgrounds are (or were) also advertisement for crypto-related products.
There was also a controversy some time ago where they were injecting their own referral link when you typed a cryptocurrency exchange’s URL on the search bar : https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/06/07/brave-browser-caught-adding-its-own-referral-codes-to-some-cryptcurrency-trading-sites/ . They stopped after it got viral.
At least they are tagging their ads as such, but it’s weird how you can’t block any of it when they decide it’s there.
I see, thanks for explaining. I used to get ads on every other new tab, but found that I could disable that in the Customize menu. I’ve only been using Brave for a few months, but it’s been a really good experience as it’s been the fastest browser for me, especially for maps. I still use Librewolf as well, which I highly recommend. I am privacy-focused, but honestly this article doesn’t deter me from using the browser and it seems like a lot of the comments here didn’t read the article or don’t understand that Brave Browser is different from Brave Search. I’ve been happy with Duck Duck Go for years, so I don’t use Brave Search.
Brave ads are opt-in.
At some point you opted-in.
If you don’t like it, then next time opt-out now or don’t opt-in next time.
I opted out and I still see ads. That’s the problem.
that’s why I point people at librewolf
Read the article though. It’s bullshit
Sorry, elaborate
They misunderstood what Brave said. Brave provides an API to help machines do search queries, and they understood that Brave provided data for LLM training. That’s completely different
It’s a shame that there isn’t a good alternative for Apple devices, though. iOS doesn’t have much by the way of good ad blockers.
It’s a shame that
there isn’t a good alternative for Apple devices, though. iOS doesn’t have much by the way of good ad blockersApple infringes on your property rights by refusing to relinquish control of your device to you, the owner, even after they “sold” it to you.FTFY.
A little agressive, but yes, they dont reliquish access to your devce after purchase. “Calling home” being the catch-all term for devices that are fully or parially sending requests to its true owners for commands to run or data to give.
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What are your setting os Firefox? What do you recomend?
@Compactor9679 @PrivateOnions uBlock Origin, Privacy Badger, Multi-account Containers, Facebook Container, and Decentraleyes are the basic extensions you’d want. Then disable pocket and telemetry in settings. There’s more but that’s a pretty good starting configuration.
install just adblock origin and consentomatic and the quality of your internet experience will increase 10 fold. that’s really all you need and then you can add on some more extensions later.
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The Containers extension is the only thing you really need IMO. Firefox is already very privacy focused, and its default settings are pretty good.
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lol no, firefox without adblock origin is like sex with a hooker with no condom.
With First Party Isolation is place, containers now add up very little to your privacy to be honest. They are mostly helpful in convenient compartmentalization of your browsing activities without actually having two different browsers.
Firefox is already very privacy focused, and its default settings are pretty good.
Partially incorrect. There is unnecessary telemetry that you would prefer to get rid of, for an example there is a setting for extensions recommendation as you browse. Also, probably because of their deal with Google, Firefox defaults to Google’s location services even though Mozilla has its own. You may want to change that as well for better privacy. I am only citing a handful few examples, there is more for you to dig in. uBO is a must have with right set of filters enabled according to your own privacy threat vectors. There is a reason hardening is a common practice among Firefox users.
Didn’t Firefox install adware on everyone’s instance in an overnight update? Like idk why people swoon over Firefox.
Lol, no
I dont know what you mean exactly, mabe fennec (and other ff forks) is keeping me safe from these changes
Brendan Eich, the guy who co-founded Firefox and developed Javascript, is the CEO of Brave. His politics aside, I think he’s a pretty trustworthy guy.
I hate to burst your bubble but when it comes to 6-7digits of cash at stake what does “trustworthy” even mean? You mean between millions and his word to you he will choose his word? His previously stated values and principles?
The guy who made waterfox seemed pretty nice, friendly, committed to the cause, then sold the project to a data-miner, and so did the honest people who made startpage, the trustworthy privacy minded search engine? Now they see waterfox is independent again and not part of the big multi-natinal data miner.
Mozilla once again made a sudden change that breaks your previous profile or other functionality and if you dare roll back the upgrade your profile has been ruined in transition, so you are forced to start from scratch reconfiguring, setting up you std tabs, bookmarks, history … Same stuff with TB, addons/plugins disabled, new “features” added, whether you trust them or not, added dependencies … you roll back you lose.
The google chrome-engine is so intrusive in the way it runs, degoogled or not, it is hell to have on a system. Maybe inside a vm without anything else other than specific browser session may be ?ok? for fluff work, nothing private I hope.
The naivity of people to accept and sometimes welcom large corporations producing FOSS is what got us to this mess, and I don’t mean users, but devs, distro managers, … if it is legally FOSS it is OK, even if it is a huge trojan horse manufactured by corporations to penetrate an other wise safe and secure system. FOSS - no corporate involvement - may be it, but will it boot? LinFound. gets millions and millions to have board seats to influence kernel, and it seems to be dancing with their wishes.
So if Firefox and Chrome are dogshit, what do we use to browse the web?
lynx elinks links :)
I think FOSS is enough because as long as you can fully read the code, it can be audited and even forked to remove BS. So I’m fine with companies developing FOSS. I don’t even really care about EEE. We can always maintain a fork of the standard at the moment you fucked with it. We can even still get your upstream changes just with the shit cherry picked out! It’s always a win.
Have you audited any of it? Would you like to try gcc or systemd for that matter? By the time you go through 1% of it the code has changed already. How many times in the past years has tremendous security breaches been caused by FOSS and was discovered months after it was in effect, and some of this by coincidence, or corporate teams that review code.
The fact I haven’t doesn’t mean I can’t read auditors who have, who do keep track of these changes. Zero days are usually caused by things no one noticed, not things that were intentionally added by corporate overlords to spy or back door a FOSS app.
Speck was pushed and provided by Google to linux, they added the content to the kernel having your naive belief, it was later found containing a backdoor to ALL systems, and Google raised their hands up and said it was passed to us by NSA. Is this what happened? Or did I dream all this up?
Facebook provided 0 FOSS, not a bit, suddenly they make an algorithm they “bought” including the author, and make it foss, to build it it needs google software, like a bush fire more than half of distributions adopt it and all data provided as comparative to xz are false, based on poor use of xz to make zstd appear better, while still admitting zstd can never attain the level of compression, but it is fast (ONLY when xz is run on a single thread while zstd is multithread by default). They claim xz sums are different when run on 1 cpu or many, still not true.
Just wait for that bomb to explode, the guy who wrote the code for zstd doesn’t seem possible to have enough knowledge to write it, he appears as a front for something.
Things that smell like shit don’t have to be actually tasted to be called shit.
Fair points.
Brendan Eich, the guy who… developed Javascript
You say that as if it’s a point in his favor, LOL.
If not for that asshole, we could’ve had a decent language embedded in the browser, like Scheme or Python!
I mean… if there wasn’t someone inventing a usable open source language for the browser it could have been some weird proprietary Microsoft language and our sites would still look like web 1.0
I didn’t mention Scheme and Python randomly; they were the other options Netscape was considering.
Oh.
What he took credit for he didn’t invent himself, Also he is a total piece of shit.
One of the founders, Brendan Eich, donated his money to take away the equal right for same-sex couples to marry in California (Prop 8). He never acknowledge that it was mistake, so I can only assume that he truly wants to see the marriages of same-sex couples erased, which is quite a hateful thing to desire.
Everyone knows the only safe way to browse is to scrape webpages and print the content to your terminal.
I never understood why anyone would use Brave, the payouts are small, the utility of the crypto is zero, and watching/seeing adverts is a nightmare. I honestly believe that blocking all advertising and sending a small monetary amount to someone providing value is a better way of supporting the people you care about.
I will never understand why people dont just use firefox and its derrivatives…
rendering engines. I use multiple browsers depending on context
Agreed, like what do chromium based browsers really have over Firefox? Real question.
It works with Google Cloud’s dashboard lol, I swear they broke it in Firefox on purpose.
But seriously it’s like the IE days, some sites are designed with one target in mind and that target is now Chrome instead of IE, partly because the Chromium engine is now the de facto one to embed and rebrand. So sometimes you just have to use Chrome.
However I use Firefox 99% of the time myself and only use Chrome when needed (mostly when managing my Google compute engine VMs, sigh)
Google integration. That’s all. Anything else is anecdotal, is ill-informed hubris or is a combination of both.
I’ve been using Brave for a few years now on my desktop and after reading the threads lately about it, I’d like to switch. I don’t seem to have the issues other users have, but I don’t want to use it based on the CEO’s views on some things.
I’ve always had Firefox installed with uBlock Origin and I use it occasionally. One of the things Chromium based browsers have is built-in tab grouping. I know there are extensions and I’ve only tried Simple Tab Groups but it didn’t behave how I was expecting it to behave, which is like how Chromium handles it.
So far that’s the only thing I’ve noticed.
I had to use a chrome based browser on Android for a couple of weeks since Firefox had a problem. It was like a nightmare. It is common in IT history that worse quality product wins.
Think about MS-DOS. Microsoft also sold Xenix,a UNIX system that time.
Using it on Android is honestly the best experience
For me it’s because Firefox is (or at least was) noticeably slower. Didn’t support all the extensions I use. And didn’t allow YouTube playback with audio beyond 4x play speed.
All of those items led to me to choose brave over Firefox since I encountered every one of them on a daily basis.
Also I hated the default font (or perhaps it was some other quiirk of the layout) of Firefox. I couldn’t figure out how to fix it.
Convenience and performance.
I’m a dual user of Firefox and Brave on different computers. In order to separate work and personal stuff and shopping, I use different profiles. Easy on brave, needs extension with separate app on Firefox, that doesn’t work on librewolf. And too often I have to stop my browsing because this Firefox setup is less stable and crashes once in a while causing annoyance.
Plus Chromecast. I like the ability to search for a video on the laptop and cast it to the TV.
It’s always a balance of convenience and privacy plus ethics, can’t have both.
I use FF but Chrome is objectively better in side by side comparison. It’s faster, more web pages load correctly, its UX is much nicer. For most people, you just install it and go. Most people don’t have the time or inclination to faff on with a browser, much less for something as poorly understood as privacy. It has features Firefox doesn’t, such as tab groups which Mozilla stupidly decided to remove and no addon does the same job as well.
Mozilla just sucks, to be frank. They can’t seem to have any coherent idea about what Firefox should be. The big redesign alienated a lot of the people who used it for its customisation. Adding in unwanted features like Pocket integration made people doubt the credibility of Mozilla’s claims of privacy. And cockups like everyones’ addons stopping working, despite being warned by the community it would happen, leave a bitter taste in peoples’ mouths.
Tried it for a week or two, but since I reinstalled Firefox I really don’t understand why I was judging/hating so much in the past years. Yes, Chrome/ium used to be waaaay faster, but Mozilla just has their shit together most of the time. The Debian of browsers so to speak.
Firefox is GOAT, but I do have Brave installed on my phone specifically for playing YouTube. The Brave browser automatically blocks YouTube ads, allows me to play videos in windowed mode, and allows me to play videos with the screen off.
I don’t do anything else in Brave, so I’ll probably hang onto it as basically a YouTube app.
You might want to look into NewPipe then. Lets you do all those things with YT, plus you can also download the videos or their audio only
I’m on an iPhone, which I why I don’t use all the other things Android people suggest.
Brave has been about the only thing I’ve found that works and is easy for iPhone.
You could check out uYouPlus then, it doesn’t require jailbreaking or anything but instead works through “sideloading”. I’ve used it for years and it’s honestlygreat:
Or they could keep using Brave? I use Brave on my phone and Firefox on my desktop for the same reasons mentioned, but in general Brave is a great browser on phones. I’m amazed it isn’t hugely popular if only for the YouTube features.
Of course they can, I never said they couldn’t. I just personally prefer YouTube’s app UI and UX over the website on mobile.
“No you MUST uninstall Brave, the company is too shady!” -someone using a phone made by a literal advertising company
I’ll look at it further thanks.
That is unfortunate, newpipe is awesome, dare I say better than YouTube Premium.
Yeah, I mean Brave seems to give me all the features premium does, at least the ones I want. I have a Google account specifically for YouTube watching with which I’ve trained/brute-force-hidden-trash to the point the algorithm 99% of the time gives me what I’m interested in, so it’s pretty simple to pop open the browser and put something on to listen to on a drive.
Newpipe doesn’t use the algorithm (besides the feed for popular but you don’t really contribute to it though) which is actually one of the reasons I like it because it allows me to cut down on my watch time (though I also tend to listen much more than watch nowadays).
It does have downloads too, admittedly I never use this feature but it is neat because you can choose the format and quality which goes above even premium’s choices for quality.
3rd party solutions for these corporate run apps truly are amazing!
I do download on my desktop with an extension (I think it’s just called “YouTube downloader”) or something.
Downloading videos is a regular habit not just to bypass ads but because the videos can disappear for everything from corporate to personal to esoteric reasons.
I use Revanced, personally, but also have NewPipe installed.
If you’re on apple I’d recommend giving Orion browser a try. It blocks all ads by default, including YouTube. It’s become my default browser on all my devices.
Try 1Blocker and Safari. I’ve had a way better, less buggy experience using that combo as opposed to Brave. I used Brave almost exclusively for ages but found that it was killing my battery life and processor. I have a five year old iPhone 8 and swapping breathed new life into it. It also solved an issue I had where I couldn’t get captions to work while using Brave but there’s no such issue on Safari
Firefox + Ublock origin will do the same for you on mobile.
I use Brave occasionally, but Firefox has been my #1 for the past 100 years or so. I stopped using Firefox as my only browser after they overhauled the interface. I really miss classic Firefox with my tabs on bottom, old search engine bar, and endless customizations.
Iirc the debian of browsers is iceweasle.
IceWeasel EOL’d 6 years ago
I still remember why: Mozilla fired Brendan Eich, the man who would go on to found Brave, for donating to Christian charities in the politically polarised climate of 2016. After Eich went, they also quietly purged any other employees that showed even a hint of conservative sympathies in their internet presence. They then went on to “experiment” with pushing browser ads on users, and while they eventually ended the experiment because of massive user backlash, they still made no apologies and didn’t abandon the idea. Just made a final public response dripping with PR bullshit with a patronising conclusion along the lines of “internet users just aren’t ready for this change yet”.
Brandon Eich was fired because he was constantly giving money to politicians and groups that were advocating for the banning of same sex marriage. Also funding the campaign of congressman Tom McClintock, a certified piece of shit, Who denies climate change, is against LGBTQ rights, and was among the republicans trying to overturn the 2020 election.
Yes. That is political affiliation. You might not share it, but whether same-sex marriage should be legal is absolutely a political question, even if it is now outside the Overton window.
Personally, I’m not sure I support any form of state marriage, but if it exists, it should include same-sex marriage.
If your political affiliation implies creating second-class citizens that may be discriminated against due to innate characteristics or harmless behavior, don’t expect me to respect your political identity, to not to discriminate against it, or to give a damn when you find yourself kicked out of places because of it.
So he was fired for his political affiliation.
From an outside perspective, I find it astonishing that those ideas are considered acceptable political positions in the US. With that said, I believe in individuals having the right to support or promote their chosen cause, but also the right of others to choose whether or not they wish to associate with them.
Opposition to gay marriage was fairly common in the early and mid 2010s. It was only legalised 8 years ago in the US, and so, in 2016, it was still a live issue.
Yeah, it just feels so bizarre to me as someone who isn’t American.
Same sex marriage is only legal in 34 countries, that’s less than 1 in 5.
In OK with that
I hope so. Fascists have no place in democracy
It started with widgets showing crypto currency markets.
I immediately noped the hell off it.
Removed by mod
If brave pretends to safeguard my privacy they would not push some shady crypto stuff in my face without opting in, right?
You know they started as a crypto browser? With BAT as their native token? Which is a cool system, as users get paid to watch ads. And yes, that’s opt-in
LOL, about half the points in the article are struck through now. Yet another “journalist” who doesn’t understand how anything works getting angry how they way they imagine it works.
That’s some quality reporting “stackdiary”.
Lol, I’m glad he at least included the full email response from them. You can tell he’s a little salty and still misinterpreting things when you read about how he took their response to the Search Crawler part.
I’m too stupid to get any of this so… Can I continue using Brave or should I look for alternatives?
This article shouldn’t affect Brave users themselves.
The content of the article deals with issues that only website owners/publishers have to be salty about. Much of what’s left comes down to the legal grey area of how to treat LLMs like ChatGPT and whether they’re allowed to scrape websites for training data or not.
I was a big Brave supporter back in 2019-2020 when it seemed to have a lot of momentum behind it. But they squandered any goodwill they had with their crypto add-ons and rewards
I can’t and won’t ever understand why people keep recommending Brave. This is not even the second or third shady shit they pull off.
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Every single one of these Brave “scandals” are so irrelevant and meaningless. I was hoping the reddit hive mind wouldn’t be brought over to lemmy, but here we are.
This article, especially after the update from Brave, seems like a huge nothing-burger. Just another excuse for the Firefox Fanatics crowd to rag on Brave and circlejerk each other about how good Firefox is.
The article isn’t even about Brave Browser, and it has nothing to do with user data. The website owner is mad that Brave Search is crawling their site and using data in their “Summarizer” feature. I thought Firefox users were supposed to be against the Google internet monopoly, but apparently when it comes to one of the only companies with their own independent and actually decent search engine, they don’t seem to care anymore because of stupid “Firefox good brave bad” browser wars nonsense.
Microsoft and google like to shit all over Brave all the time. Brave is very privacy friendly, the data they collect from their users is way less invasive than the shit Edge and Chrome collect from you.
complains about browser wars
types up multiple paragraphs crying about “Firefox Fanatics”
Why is everyone mixing search engines and browsers here? This is specifically about the search engine and the problems that api of the search engine has with respecting copyright laws. I use their search engine and dont use their browser
Yeah this whole comment thread is not very reassuring about Lemmy and reveals it’s just as vulnerable to manipulation. The r/Privacy thread on Reddit was far more honest.
I tried Brave for a couple days but I kept getting notifications from it that were ads. Brave had to go.
You can turn these off. It’s part of their crypto rewards system (you get occasional ads, some crypto and then some of it gets distributed back to the websites you vist most, or just the ones you select) so it’s on by default. But you can easily opt out of this from settings.
I don’t think this whole crypto system lifted off really, but it was a neat idea to reward web content creators and users, according to traffic and preferences.
That’s like the whole point of brave though, you get “paid” (peanuts) for watching the ads
Those ads are the point of their business model. They show you ads, and repay you with tokens. You can gift those tokens to content creators or sell them on the market.
You can disable those, they can be set to some frequency per hour and you get paid brave attention tokens based on that
Not sure if you were aware but you are able yo turn that off.
Did nobody read the article? The author is crying that Brave implemented a summary feature so users don’t have to read through entire paragraphs to get to the actual content. Of course, he goes on and on about copyright and OpenAI, nothing really about user data.
