“As the president of the United States, you have power to change the course of history, and the responsibility to save lives right now,” the staffers wrote.

  • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Remember this blood is on the hands of anyone who voted for him and would vote for him again.

    Genocide is Biden’s legacy, hope it was worth saving “democracy”.

    Your downvotes are a witness against you and do not absolve you of your guilt.

    • filister@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Sorry to disappoint you, but if the president was Trump or any other Republican your government would have been even firmer behind Israel, so it is a choice between a bad and a worse president.

      • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Hell we would probably have deployed troops to Gaza and also to stand by in case of actions from Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, or Syria.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Nope. Cold hard truth to your fucking pathetic attempt at putting Netty’s bloodthirst on Biden. You are beyond pathetic and frankly beyond stupid.

              • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Leninists, don’t think. It’s anathema to them. That’s how we get here. More anti west than anything else. Including socialist. Not that leninists were ever socialists.

                • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  Oh, is that what they are?

                  Why can’t they just stay in hexbear or lemmygrad with the rest of them? Much easier to filter

                  • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Well it’s an assumption based on the originating TLD. But it’s a safe assumption. Leninists/tankies will hypocritically condemn everything about America. And yet defend the exact same actions from other countries. Simply because they are not perceived as being West or western. Or having aided the West. So if you go there looking for logic, you’re going to have a bad time. Unless you know that the hypocrisy is the core of their ideology.

                  • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    No, I’m not a Leninist.

                    And, no, I don’t think it would be any better under Trump but I’m not lying to myself that voting for Biden somehow saved democracy and thus the world. Genocide Joe and Friends has been a spineless shit domestically which has only enabled the Far Right in the US and he just showed where he stands internationally, which is no different from the Far Right. Just want to remind people this is what they voted for when they chose to rabidly support Biden.

      • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        But you voted for the guy who has been friends, worked with, and politically supported a Right-wing, ethnonationalist for over 40 years.

    • liquidparasyte@pawb.social
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      1 year ago

      That you apparently have the privilege to not be affected by the consequences of a Republican government doesn’t invalidate the choices of those who would be, and voted accordingly.

      We are all complicit in the same way we are all complicit for the war crimes committed by America in the Middle East: most of us did not have a choice in the matter whatsoever. All we can do is demand them to stop.

      I’m not going to judge someone whose choices are “genocide” and “genocide even more, and even more local genocide” and picks the former.

      • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        On the contrary, you are displaying the tremendous privilege of living in the imperial core by being able to choose between “‘genocide’ and ‘genocide even more, and even more local genocide’” and justify literally voluntarily voting to choose genocide in order to make yourself feel more comfortable within the imperial core.

        True fascism taking power in the US means that I and the people around me will be murdered. But I don’t feel the ethical apathy to be able to coldly prefer international genocide of others to keep myself safe at home all the while pretending like I saved the freedom for the entire world as children and whole families are being murdered. Biden is not the progressive savior all of you claimed he was, now at least you admit you chose “genocide”—which I do, and history will, judge harshly.

        If you choose to vote for him again after this, you will consciously approve of genocide and be all the more guilty.

        • Sarmyth@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Oh well. There is nothing I can do about being born and living here. Since I don’t think my fellow Americans’ reproductive rights should be taken from them, I’ll happily wash my hands in Palestinian blood to do that.

          I mean, I don’t think that’s the actual choice… but if crazy people online say it is, I’ll make that choice. I guess the people actually involved in the conflict will just have to be disappointed.

    • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Biden did not cause the problems in Gaza, what are you on about? He’s not the one in charge of Israel’s actions. I am not a fan of him or a fan of sending aid to them, but this is just overdramatic.

      On top of that, if people didn’t vote for Biden then we would have Trump doing the same plus a bunch of other worse shit on top of that. We have two choices everytime. All people can do is vote for the lesser of two evils and that’s what they did. If you wanna throw away your vote and help the objectively worse party win a presidential election again, that’s on you, but most sensible people understand the choice we are forced to make thanks to our shitty system.

      • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Biden did not cause the problems in Gaza, what are you on about? He’s not the one in charge of Israel’s actions. I am not a fan of him or a fan of sending aid to them, but this is just overdramatic.

        No, he’s just the one supporting funding and arming Israel no matter what they do for decades and voting for him continued to enable Israel which inevitably led to this moment we’re at now.

        On top of that, if people didn’t vote for Biden then we would have Trump doing the same plus a bunch of other worse shit on top of that. We have two choices everytime. All people can do is vote for the lesser of two evils and that’s what they did. If you wanna throw away your vote and help the objectively worse party win a presidential election again, that’s on you, but most sensible people understand the choice we are forced to make thanks to our shitty system.

        Whataboutism.

        • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Whataboutism.

          the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

          The choice to vote for Biden is linked to the choice to vote against Trump. They can not be separated from one another. To do so is to be disingenuous. We live in a democracy with a two party system. The Republican party is disproportionally represented by our electoral system and win with low voter turn out.

          Since we can not separate the choice of voting for Biden and rejecting Trump, it is justified to bring up what Trump and the Republicans would do. If we want any chance of the US demanding a ceasefire then we need to reject the Republican party who will blindly support Israeli no mater what.

          • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            You got what you voted for then. A whopping 4-hour daily ceasefire.

            Thanks for voting!

            • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              I also avoided another disastrous four years under Trump. I can live with the choice to vote for Biden because everyone in the world will be worse off under Trump. So, you’re welcome.

              • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Yeah, it could be worse for those maimed Palestinian kids. They could be dead, like those other Palestinian kids. Great trade.

                • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  Trump would have enabled and emboldened Israel’s government to kill more Palestinians. That would have been a worse outcome. There is no such thing as rock bottom. It can always get worse.

                  • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    So how many murdered Palestinians are an acceptable amount for you?

    • forrgott@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Not voting for him again directly enables a guy that would do so much worse. Your stance lacks any understanding of the limits to our voting system.

      • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        How could it be worse than genocide for Palestinians?

        • Sarmyth@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Still genocide for Palestine, but also Ukraine and Taiwan, maybe? Also, untold deaths in the US resulting from a further degradation of our rights. Maybe even a full flip to a dictatorship running the world’s largest military.

          Pretty bad.

        • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Israel could genocide all 2.2 million people living in the Gaza Strip, all 3 million people living in the West Bank, the 1.6 million Palestinian people who live in Israel, the 5.5 million people living in Lebanon and get into a massive conflict in the Middle East where they end up using nuclear weapons.

          Oh, and Trump could deport the 225 thousand Palestinian people living in the United States so Israel can genocide them too. Or just do it here in America. The Republicans will almost certainly streamline the death penalty and turn America’s mass incarceration system into death camps.

          • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            More whataboutism. Trump isn’t the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn’t helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps (‘migrant detention centers’) already underway in the US.

            But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.

            Even if it isn’t completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.

            Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?

            • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              More whataboutism. Trump isn’t the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn’t helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps (‘migrant detention centers’) already underway in the US.

              I have already refuted this argument so I’m just going to copy and paste my earlier response.

              Whataboutism.

              the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

              The choice to vote for Biden is linked to the choice to vote against Trump. They can not be separated from one another. To do so is to be disingenuous. We live in a democracy with a two party system. The Republican party is disproportionally represented by our electoral system and win with low voter turn out.

              Since we can not separate the choice of voting for Biden and rejecting Trump, it is justified to bring up what Trump and the Republicans would do. If we want any chance of the US demanding a ceasefire then we need to reject the Republican party who will blindly support Israeli no mater what.

              But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.

              The collective punishment we are seeing now is the start of genocide. It is not the full genocide. The difference is millions of people. There is no credibility to an argument that refuses to acknowledge this difference.

              Even if it isn’t completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.

              No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.

              Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?

              You can’t guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn’t work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It’s not equivalent.

              • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Whataboutism.

                the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question byraising a different issue.

                Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?

                We live in a democracy with a two party system.

                Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?

                No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.

                Whataboutism. It’s obnoxious when it isn’t being used against your opponents, right?

                You can’t guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn’t work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It’s not equivalent.

                I haven’t supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?

                • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?

                  Multiple people did. It’s not whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.

                  Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?

                  This statement is not based in reality. Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.

                  Whataboutism. It’s obnoxious when it isn’t being used against your opponents, right?

                  It’s not a whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.

                  I haven’t supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?

                  It’s a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It’s just math. You can’t guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.

                  • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.

                    You’re delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.

                    It’s a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It’s just math. You can’t guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.

                    That’s a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?

    • Sarmyth@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      The problem with this rhetoric is that it just reinforces an echo chamber.

      If anything, I’ve got no reason not to vote for him since I already have blood on my hands. And if I voted for someone else and they also end up not stopping another country from doing disagreeable things, then I get blood on my hands there. There’s blood on everything. I don’t care anymore. I’ll vote for Dem because they cause me the least problems and sometimes even do good.

      If you say I’ve got blood on my hands for that, I guess that’s too bad.

      • ikiru@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        All right, but this doesn’t make you any different from Trump supporters that Democrats love to accuse of (mostly correctly) being fascists.

        The problem with you feeling like this critique makes you defensive and want to just go for the easy option is that there is always another option that you could do but it seems like it’s impossible for it to dawn upon you people. It’s either genocide or worse genocide. No other choice. But it’s also totally a functioning democracy worth defending, unlike those other bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes.

        If you can’t figure out another option or don’t support it or think it’s impossible because it’s difficult so might as well not do it, then continue doing as you are but, yes, be aware there is blood on your hands and you are acting as a fascist supporter at best.

        • Sarmyth@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          Just because you’re too narrowly focused on 1 issue in 1 place in the world, to see the difference doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

          It’s also pretty obvious that voting from your choices doesn’t make you a 100% supporter of their beliefs or actions. We aren’t electing our clones.

          It’s the trolly problem and always has been.