Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel? #Gaza #ElectionImpact
I’m sorry, but putting the entirety of the blame on Harris when there were plenty of people who didn’t care whether or not a rapist fascist dictator got into power and plenty of others specifically telling people not to vote for Harris is ludicrous.
There is so much blame to go around and people like you who just blame Harris now make me think that you were part of the group telling people to absolutely not vote for Harris no matter what. People like you are why I have to flee for my daughter’s safety.
Correct, candidates are not entitled to votes, but I dont know what voting system your fantasy world uses.
Lets ignore parties for a moment and just say you have two people running that are different degrees of evil. I would argue a failure to vote for the lesser evil is to abide the greater evil (does this make you evil?). In this case, abstaining or apathy itself is also a choice, and would be cosidered evil because you did not act against the greater evil.
Lets add a more realistic third candidate in and demonstrate the spoiler effect. Where there is an idealogical divide, the side with the fewer candidates wins. If a third party throws their hat into the ring, they end up encroching on support held by their idealogical peers, effectivly handing the win to their oppsition by simply existing.
Combining both of these observations looks an awful lot like the electoral college and the US voting system. Neither major party is willing to allow a third party to exist in their space, because if they do they lose by spoiler effect and forces people to strategicly vote instead of standing by their ideals. The solution is getting rid of first-past-the-post and moving to a ranked choice or instant run-off system similar to the ones found in the EU, this would allow people to put their ideal candidate first without jepordizing their idealogical peers. Until such a time when that is a reality, being a protest voter/non-voter is making a choice against your own self interests and the interests of those you care for.
Living in a blue state, I chose not to vote for Harris, I understand what I was doing. Harris got all of my state’s electoral college votes and I did not vote for her or Trump. I also chose not to vote for any senators or reps who receive aipac money, but I also live in a blue county in a blue state….
Oh, okay. Well you know Flying Squid better than I do because I didn’t think he even implied that candidates were entitled to votes.
Please continue and tell me more about this Flying Squid fellow because I really thought I could get inside his head and figure out what he was thinking.
You’re certainly not because that is not a recognized psychological disorder, but the issue here is that I thought I was Flying Squid, but you’re telling me Flying Squid is saying things that I definitely did not in any way even imply.
So who am I?
By the way, can you please quote where Flying Squid said a candidate is entitled to votes? Because I’ve read everything Flying Squid has said in this thread and I have yet to find it.
(This is where you refuse to quote what you claim was said if this plays out how these things normally do.)
You pretty much implied it, I’m sorry if you can’t see the connection you yourself implied but maybe see that others in the thread also see and recognize the implications your statement made
Fine, please quote the person you are claiming is me implying it.
You’ve literally already had a day. How many more days is it going to take? Because just admitting what you said is a lie isn’t going to happen so I’m really interested to see if you’re going to keep stretching this out or you’re going to give up.
She said she would change nothing and continue to fully support Israel the same as Biden, she had multiple opportunities to clarify and doubled down.
I can’t see your question as a good faith one.
Hundreds of folks in lemmy alone continuously argued during the election campaign that Harris wouldn’t support the genocide as much as Trump would, which in itself shows they already believed Harris was supporting a genocide.
What I heard her say at the DNC was; “We need Israel, we’re in a huge bind with that, but we’re absolutely not ok with what is happening in Palestine and we’re working to stop it”.
A claim was made. I asked for evidence supporting that claim. I don’t see how the question is in bad faith.
None of that is evidence of her supporting genocide. “You’re wrong and everyone thinks so” is kindergarten level “evidence”.
People need to recognize that this “war” (aka genocide of unarmed civilians) is happening between two different countries. As much as the US gov likes to think so, it is not the world’s daddy. It doesn’t have the power to come into any situation across the globe and immediately put a stop to it. Does the US hold a massive amount of political influence? Yes. But they still have to USE that influence to get things done, and weigh the impact using that influence could have on their military readiness for the region (which is important to maintain, now that it’s there, unfortunately). They could absolutely stop funding Israel’s military stock. Do you think that would immediately stop the genocide? I think it could cost the US an ally, which would remove ANY influence they have over them. This is a snippet of geo-politics that should highlight the necessity to handle complex problems with thoughtful, measured diplomacy. Personally, I don’t want a world in which the US can “lay down the law” wherever, however, and whenever they want. Even when it’s for the right reasons. Imperialism got the US into this mess. I’m not convinced more imperialism will solve it.
If geo-politics weren’t what they currently are, I would love for the US to end it’s relationship with Israel and immediately deploy troops to stop them. If domestic politics weren’t what they currently are, I would love to not vote for people I don’t agree with, on most issues, because I don’t get candidates that are progressive enough for me (or the many problems in the US ). But, as a gay man, I have to recognize the reality of my situation, and the domestic threats to my family, that are on the horizon, because people like you threw us (and all minorities/ immigrants) under the bus to make some point about your idealogies. Petulant children, the lot of you.
I guess you’re going to pretend like Biden didn’t directly fund the Israeli genocide against Palestinians.
🤷♂️
And as for you having the sads about who I voted for? I don’t give a fuck who you think I should or shouldn’t vote for. That’s the whole point of voting. I make my own choices. And my state electoral college votes all went to Harris. You’re talking out of your ass and blaming voters when the person who deserves 100% of the blame is Harris and the DNC…
This person didn’t like the points I raised in my reply to this comment, so they reported my comment to the auto-mod. Apparently the conversation has not been civil enough for them, despite their repeated use of profanity and insults.
I’m sorry, but putting the entirety of the blame on Harris when there were plenty of people who didn’t care whether or not a rapist fascist dictator got into power and plenty of others specifically telling people not to vote for Harris is ludicrous.
There is so much blame to go around and people like you who just blame Harris now make me think that you were part of the group telling people to absolutely not vote for Harris no matter what. People like you are why I have to flee for my daughter’s safety.
Are you that dense? You’re literally trying to blame voters for Kamala’s support of genocide.
You get a big nope. Nope out of here with that noise.
I am doing no such thing and that’s a ridiculous lie to tell.
That’s literally what you’re doing. Candidates are not entitled to votes.
Correct, candidates are not entitled to votes, but I dont know what voting system your fantasy world uses.
Lets ignore parties for a moment and just say you have two people running that are different degrees of evil. I would argue a failure to vote for the lesser evil is to abide the greater evil (does this make you evil?). In this case, abstaining or apathy itself is also a choice, and would be cosidered evil because you did not act against the greater evil.
Lets add a more realistic third candidate in and demonstrate the spoiler effect. Where there is an idealogical divide, the side with the fewer candidates wins. If a third party throws their hat into the ring, they end up encroching on support held by their idealogical peers, effectivly handing the win to their oppsition by simply existing.
Combining both of these observations looks an awful lot like the electoral college and the US voting system. Neither major party is willing to allow a third party to exist in their space, because if they do they lose by spoiler effect and forces people to strategicly vote instead of standing by their ideals. The solution is getting rid of first-past-the-post and moving to a ranked choice or instant run-off system similar to the ones found in the EU, this would allow people to put their ideal candidate first without jepordizing their idealogical peers. Until such a time when that is a reality, being a protest voter/non-voter is making a choice against your own self interests and the interests of those you care for.
Living in a blue state, I chose not to vote for Harris, I understand what I was doing. Harris got all of my state’s electoral college votes and I did not vote for her or Trump. I also chose not to vote for any senators or reps who receive aipac money, but I also live in a blue county in a blue state….
Oh, okay. Well you know Flying Squid better than I do because I didn’t think he even implied that candidates were entitled to votes.
Please continue and tell me more about this Flying Squid fellow because I really thought I could get inside his head and figure out what he was thinking.
Good luck with that, as of now he seems to have multiple personality disorder, but I’m no doctor 🤷♂️
You’re certainly not because that is not a recognized psychological disorder, but the issue here is that I thought I was Flying Squid, but you’re telling me Flying Squid is saying things that I definitely did not in any way even imply.
So who am I?
By the way, can you please quote where Flying Squid said a candidate is entitled to votes? Because I’ve read everything Flying Squid has said in this thread and I have yet to find it.
(This is where you refuse to quote what you claim was said if this plays out how these things normally do.)
Edit: called it.
You pretty much implied it, I’m sorry if you can’t see the connection you yourself implied but maybe see that others in the thread also see and recognize the implications your statement made
Oh look, you’re back without a quote.
Fine, please quote the person you are claiming is me implying it.
You’ve literally already had a day. How many more days is it going to take? Because just admitting what you said is a lie isn’t going to happen so I’m really interested to see if you’re going to keep stretching this out or you’re going to give up.
Can you provide some sort of evidence that Harris supports genocide?
She said she would change nothing and continue to fully support Israel the same as Biden, she had multiple opportunities to clarify and doubled down.
I can’t see your question as a good faith one.
Hundreds of folks in lemmy alone continuously argued during the election campaign that Harris wouldn’t support the genocide as much as Trump would, which in itself shows they already believed Harris was supporting a genocide.
What I heard her say at the DNC was; “We need Israel, we’re in a huge bind with that, but we’re absolutely not ok with what is happening in Palestine and we’re working to stop it”.
A claim was made. I asked for evidence supporting that claim. I don’t see how the question is in bad faith.
None of that is evidence of her supporting genocide. “You’re wrong and everyone thinks so” is kindergarten level “evidence”.
People need to recognize that this “war” (aka genocide of unarmed civilians) is happening between two different countries. As much as the US gov likes to think so, it is not the world’s daddy. It doesn’t have the power to come into any situation across the globe and immediately put a stop to it. Does the US hold a massive amount of political influence? Yes. But they still have to USE that influence to get things done, and weigh the impact using that influence could have on their military readiness for the region (which is important to maintain, now that it’s there, unfortunately). They could absolutely stop funding Israel’s military stock. Do you think that would immediately stop the genocide? I think it could cost the US an ally, which would remove ANY influence they have over them. This is a snippet of geo-politics that should highlight the necessity to handle complex problems with thoughtful, measured diplomacy. Personally, I don’t want a world in which the US can “lay down the law” wherever, however, and whenever they want. Even when it’s for the right reasons. Imperialism got the US into this mess. I’m not convinced more imperialism will solve it.
If geo-politics weren’t what they currently are, I would love for the US to end it’s relationship with Israel and immediately deploy troops to stop them. If domestic politics weren’t what they currently are, I would love to not vote for people I don’t agree with, on most issues, because I don’t get candidates that are progressive enough for me (or the many problems in the US ). But, as a gay man, I have to recognize the reality of my situation, and the domestic threats to my family, that are on the horizon, because people like you threw us (and all minorities/ immigrants) under the bus to make some point about your idealogies. Petulant children, the lot of you.
I guess you’re going to pretend like Biden didn’t directly fund the Israeli genocide against Palestinians.
🤷♂️
And as for you having the sads about who I voted for? I don’t give a fuck who you think I should or shouldn’t vote for. That’s the whole point of voting. I make my own choices. And my state electoral college votes all went to Harris. You’re talking out of your ass and blaming voters when the person who deserves 100% of the blame is Harris and the DNC…
This person didn’t like the points I raised in my reply to this comment, so they reported my comment to the auto-mod. Apparently the conversation has not been civil enough for them, despite their repeated use of profanity and insults.
I didn’t report anything not sure what you mean
Removed by mod