That’s all fine and dandy until people change the definition of those words to suit their needs. Then all speech they disagree with is hate speech. Which has already happened
Let’s get some examples there chief.
Link what you think is “fine” and has been labeled hate speech
As a Floridian, the issue is pretty apparent. Conservatives are outlawing the current teachings about race in our schools all under the guise of STOPPING racism.
Under freedom of speech I expect idiotic ideas like this to arise, what’s unacceptable is when that free speech is undermined so teachers can’t deliver the truth. Never undermine freedom of speech. This is where we end up.
but a lot of the teachers are fine with the changes.
In your “not undermined free speech”, what stops a teacher from simply teaching that the blacks were lucky and should have been happy to be slaves? or would you enforce a certain “factual viewpoint”, and by your own argument, undermining free speech? after all, it is “their truth”.
No, we put limits on free speech all the time for a lot of good reasons, we don’t let people call themselves doctors without the qualification, nor police, we don’t let people sell you paint stripper and call it milk, etc, etc, etc…
I hear your point about limiting people’s free speech in a narrow band, like misrepresenting themselves as doctors. And I’ll admit my argument breaks down a little here because I do believe teachers should generally have to follow an approved plan. My overall point here is that Republicans are weaponizing any exception to the rule of free speech. So we should be very careful about how we use it. That’s the whole point of free speech. No one can be trusted to be the referee.
With free speech there’s millions of ideas out there and most of them are shit, it’s very difficult to find the good ones. And that sucks. I hear you. But without free speech we get to have one idea and you don’t get to pick what it is. If that doesn’t scare you I don’t know what would.
If teachers are allowed free speech, you’re right, some might teach kids slavery was beneficial. But without free speech, teachers are being FORCED to teach that slavery was beneficial. You see how that’s worse right?
and? it used to be the other way around with the teachers, now it’s just in the racist disinformation direction. It used to be that many teachers also complained that they were forced to teach “woke propaganda”
by your logic, any teacher that believes the POC/LGBTQ are trying to destroy America should be able to instill that into their students.
And yes, often times you don’t get to pick the truth, you don’t get to pretend that the holocaust was a Jewish plot to try and destroy the white man, you don’t get to call for lynching that N***** because he kissed a white lady, and you don’t get to advocate for dragging gays down the street via rope from a car.
As for weaponizing any exception to the rule of free speech. have you been asleep for the last 50 years? Republicans are across the board the most anti-free peach group in America, only allowing its existence in so far as it serves their hate filled ideology, they don’t weaponize restrictions on free speech, they bitch and moan if they literally can’t call for the holocaust 2 electric boogaloo.
As for the “No one can be trusted to be the referee”. that is bullshit. somehow, most of the rest of the 1st world manages to do just fine, But i guess this is just another one of those unavoidable things that strangely only happens in the USA.
No, they’re stopping woke political teachings of race. Not anything else. The differences in race and our history has always been taught, and will continue to be. Teaching black kids that they’re victims of white people, and white kids that’s they’re racists has NO place in their education. And that HAS been taught to them. Those teachings take innocent children and MAKE them racist against the other race. There’s no other outcome.
Downvoted solely for use of “cucked”. For fuck’s sake, that word needs to die, not be “reclaimed” or whatever the fuck. It just makes me irrationally angry.
If they were spewing diarrhea for years, it doesn’t mean that I want to smell it again merely because it’s coming out of the ass of someone on the left.
It’s kink-phobic. The reason why they chose that particular kink to fixate on and use to insult people probably says a lot about them, but I won’t speculate on that here.
Exactly. Nobody is telling white kids they’re racist for existing. That dude just exemplifies the kind of brain rot you get when all your news comes from Breitbart, Fox News, and Facebook memes.
Except black people’s lives have been made worse by white people. Where’s the lie? White kids are not being taught they’re racist. I got a “woke” education and white people were not taught that they’re inherently bigoted. In fact, we were taught that anyone can be a bigot, regardless of who they are, and that any category can be used to cause division and hate.
I wish you would take your face out of the slop of lies the right wing media feeds you. It makes me sad.
as a white conservative, I think it’s an affront to justice that I can’t call black people N****s and have to “respect their rights”!
true freedom is having the right to own people!
What school is teaching what you said? Are you familiar with actual CRT and where it is applied? Hint: not in grade schools. Nobody thinks white children should be ashamed of their race and vice versa. Giving students an accurate history and equipping them to understand racial issues is vital. Let’s not confuse ignorance with innocence.
All righty – I didn’t realize I somehow found myself in a 3 week old thread. In case it happens to anyone else, I’m going to send my reply anyways, but I’m not going to reply directly to him because I see no point in engaging with shithead racists 3-weeks later!
Uh … 900 uses of racial slurs / racist behavior reported and more than half of them being the N-word … seems to me like maybe they deserved to taught that they’re being racist because … [shocker] they were being racist!
Also, ONE fucking example of a moderately sized (~435,000) suburb isn’t the smoking gun they think it is, even if it turned out to be accurate (which, this isn’t).
You’ll notice that there is zero proof of what he said, just that right wing whack jobs lost their fucking minds and got stirred into a fury because of the CRT boogeyman.
Loudon County, VA. Do your research, that LITERALLY happened. Made national news, I’m thinking you’re not in the US, not a person in the country isn’t familiar with the chaos of that place, Hardly contained there.
There have been some laws passed by several states to label criticisms of Israel’s apartheid state as hate speech and outlaw BDS boycotts based on that.
Do not assume the right wing won’t try to turn whatever tactic you find effective against them back at you. That doesn’t mean you should stop using it though; they certainly aren’t going to drop it now that they’ve found a way to wield it.
I specifically said to continue using it. Right wingers using it for right wing goals doesn’t mean that it’s inherently bad or something. Labeling things hate speech is a useful tool, but don’t trick yourself into thinking your opponent can’t use it.
Link what you think is “fine” and has been labeled hate speech
Sure, lets start with having a penis making you a man, and a vagina making you a woman. Referencing indisputable biology has been called both hate and a phobia more times than I can count.
Its doesnt “make” them a man, they ARE a man. I could care less if people want to switch sides, but pretending you’re no longer what your biology dictates is stupid.
If theyre a women, go get pregnant and carry a child to term, when I see that, theyre a woman.
Its not about politics, its not about religion, its about biological fact and commom sense.
Being “progressive” doesnt include ignorance of reality.
Well… Guess a lot women turn out to be men. We didn’t see them carry a child. Perhaps they will carry a child at some point, perhaps they won’t. But until then you can’t trust a single woman to be a woman until they have born a child in front of you.
You may want to get used to the idea that you’ve been attracted to men all along. I can help you with your coming out.
Today I learned infertile women are men. Women without children are men. Women who adopted but didn’t get pregnant and carry their children are men. Got it.
There is a difference between biological sex (male/female) and social gender (man/woman). Feel free to make this the hill you die on, if you’d like. My hill is the left fawning over tolerance for Islam without understanding that it’s an exclusivist fundamentalist proselytizing religion that has no sizeable liberal movements. There is no version of Islam that is like the Unitarians, UCC, etc where the holy book is understood to be a product of its times. Sufism is close insofar as their mysticism makes them chill, but they’re not universalists. I have no desire to import proselytizing religionists of any culture or creed, and certainly no tolerance for the same.
what are you talking about, he is platforming and agreeing with everyone from the arch-conservatives all the way to the alt-right retards in the last few months.
He also agrees with a ton on the left, which is why I said Libertarian. If you actually listen to him it’s pretty impossible to miss he’s fiscally and constitutionally conservative and pretty damn liberal socially.
This is a definition dispute, not biological. Mostly anyway. I could have this conversation with a lot of people and it wouldn’t be any sort of hate speech, but it’s pretty obvious what you’re about here.
Let’s get some examples there chief.
Link what you think is “fine” and has been labeled hate speech
As a Floridian, the issue is pretty apparent. Conservatives are outlawing the current teachings about race in our schools all under the guise of STOPPING racism.
But that’s fascists calling reality fake…
We can’t take any of them seriously. I didn’t think I had to keep pointing that out in 2023.
I meant a rational person declaring something they don’t like as hate speech.
Do you understand how crazy it is to say:
Fascists have been trying to do that forever, dont start falling for it now all of a sudden.
Yuuup. Just like they say about liberals calling for the protection of pronouns: “Genders is gender!”
So yeah, sorry, but we have to be VERY careful about any kind of “Free speech, except…” because anyone can fill in that blank.
Don’t act like this is some crazy tactic that no one would fall for. There are kids down the street from me RIGHT NOW learning about how slavery is misunderstood and it gave people lots of valuable skills.
ironically, slavery just being misunderstood is due to the “I will defend your right to say ANYTHING crowd”
Under freedom of speech I expect idiotic ideas like this to arise, what’s unacceptable is when that free speech is undermined so teachers can’t deliver the truth. Never undermine freedom of speech. This is where we end up.
but a lot of the teachers are fine with the changes.
In your “not undermined free speech”, what stops a teacher from simply teaching that the blacks were lucky and should have been happy to be slaves? or would you enforce a certain “factual viewpoint”, and by your own argument, undermining free speech? after all, it is “their truth”.
No, we put limits on free speech all the time for a lot of good reasons, we don’t let people call themselves doctors without the qualification, nor police, we don’t let people sell you paint stripper and call it milk, etc, etc, etc…
There’s a massive amount of teachers that don’t agree and would face legal troubles if they say anything to the contrary
I hear your point about limiting people’s free speech in a narrow band, like misrepresenting themselves as doctors. And I’ll admit my argument breaks down a little here because I do believe teachers should generally have to follow an approved plan. My overall point here is that Republicans are weaponizing any exception to the rule of free speech. So we should be very careful about how we use it. That’s the whole point of free speech. No one can be trusted to be the referee.
With free speech there’s millions of ideas out there and most of them are shit, it’s very difficult to find the good ones. And that sucks. I hear you. But without free speech we get to have one idea and you don’t get to pick what it is. If that doesn’t scare you I don’t know what would.
If teachers are allowed free speech, you’re right, some might teach kids slavery was beneficial. But without free speech, teachers are being FORCED to teach that slavery was beneficial. You see how that’s worse right?
and? it used to be the other way around with the teachers, now it’s just in the racist disinformation direction. It used to be that many teachers also complained that they were forced to teach “woke propaganda”
by your logic, any teacher that believes the POC/LGBTQ are trying to destroy America should be able to instill that into their students. And yes, often times you don’t get to pick the truth, you don’t get to pretend that the holocaust was a Jewish plot to try and destroy the white man, you don’t get to call for lynching that N***** because he kissed a white lady, and you don’t get to advocate for dragging gays down the street via rope from a car.
As for weaponizing any exception to the rule of free speech. have you been asleep for the last 50 years? Republicans are across the board the most anti-free peach group in America, only allowing its existence in so far as it serves their hate filled ideology, they don’t weaponize restrictions on free speech, they bitch and moan if they literally can’t call for the holocaust 2 electric boogaloo.
As for the “No one can be trusted to be the referee”. that is bullshit. somehow, most of the rest of the 1st world manages to do just fine, But i guess this is just another one of those unavoidable things that strangely only happens in the USA.
No, they’re stopping woke political teachings of race. Not anything else. The differences in race and our history has always been taught, and will continue to be. Teaching black kids that they’re victims of white people, and white kids that’s they’re racists has NO place in their education. And that HAS been taught to them. Those teachings take innocent children and MAKE them racist against the other race. There’s no other outcome.
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Downvoted solely for use of “cucked”. For fuck’s sake, that word needs to die, not be “reclaimed” or whatever the fuck. It just makes me irrationally angry.
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If they were spewing diarrhea for years, it doesn’t mean that I want to smell it again merely because it’s coming out of the ass of someone on the left.
It’s kink-phobic. The reason why they chose that particular kink to fixate on and use to insult people probably says a lot about them, but I won’t speculate on that here.
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Who is telling white kids they’re racist? Honestly.
Oh do you mean their ancestors? Because that’s kind of a big difference.
Exactly. Nobody is telling white kids they’re racist for existing. That dude just exemplifies the kind of brain rot you get when all your news comes from Breitbart, Fox News, and Facebook memes.
Except black people’s lives have been made worse by white people. Where’s the lie? White kids are not being taught they’re racist. I got a “woke” education and white people were not taught that they’re inherently bigoted. In fact, we were taught that anyone can be a bigot, regardless of who they are, and that any category can be used to cause division and hate.
I wish you would take your face out of the slop of lies the right wing media feeds you. It makes me sad.
as a white conservative, I think it’s an affront to justice that I can’t call black people N****s and have to “respect their rights”! true freedom is having the right to own people!
Cringe: denying you as a white conservatives are a bigot.
Based: proudly boasting that white conservatives are bigots.
What school is teaching what you said? Are you familiar with actual CRT and where it is applied? Hint: not in grade schools. Nobody thinks white children should be ashamed of their race and vice versa. Giving students an accurate history and equipping them to understand racial issues is vital. Let’s not confuse ignorance with innocence.
Dog whistle.
Show me the curriculum that teaches black kids they’re victims and white kids that they’re all racist.
All righty – I didn’t realize I somehow found myself in a 3 week old thread. In case it happens to anyone else, I’m going to send my reply anyways, but I’m not going to reply directly to him because I see no point in engaging with shithead racists 3-weeks later!
The school he used as an example:
https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/virginia/loudoun-county/loudoun-co-schools-report-nearly-900-racial-slur-and-hate-speech-incidents-this-past-school-year/
Uh … 900 uses of racial slurs / racist behavior reported and more than half of them being the N-word … seems to me like maybe they deserved to taught that they’re being racist because … [shocker] they were being racist!
Also, ONE fucking example of a moderately sized (~435,000) suburb isn’t the smoking gun they think it is, even if it turned out to be accurate (which, this isn’t).
Details on the specific incident they’re likely whinging about though:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/partisan-war-over-teaching-history-racism-stokes-tensions-us-schools-2021-06-23/
You’ll notice that there is zero proof of what he said, just that right wing whack jobs lost their fucking minds and got stirred into a fury because of the CRT boogeyman.
Loudon County, VA. Do your research, that LITERALLY happened. Made national news, I’m thinking you’re not in the US, not a person in the country isn’t familiar with the chaos of that place, Hardly contained there.
There have been some laws passed by several states to label criticisms of Israel’s apartheid state as hate speech and outlaw BDS boycotts based on that.
Do not assume the right wing won’t try to turn whatever tactic you find effective against them back at you. That doesn’t mean you should stop using it though; they certainly aren’t going to drop it now that they’ve found a way to wield it.
That’s the same as the other example someone gave…
Fascists calling something hate speech so we stop talking about their fascism.
Why does this work on so many people?
What logic are you using that this means we can’t use the term “hate speech” anymore?
I specifically said to continue using it. Right wingers using it for right wing goals doesn’t mean that it’s inherently bad or something. Labeling things hate speech is a useful tool, but don’t trick yourself into thinking your opponent can’t use it.
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Sure, lets start with having a penis making you a man, and a vagina making you a woman. Referencing indisputable biology has been called both hate and a phobia more times than I can count.
Ah, so when someone transitions from woman to man and have a penis grafted on them, it makes them a man? Good on you to be so progressive.
Its doesnt “make” them a man, they ARE a man. I could care less if people want to switch sides, but pretending you’re no longer what your biology dictates is stupid.
If theyre a women, go get pregnant and carry a child to term, when I see that, theyre a woman.
Its not about politics, its not about religion, its about biological fact and commom sense.
Being “progressive” doesnt include ignorance of reality.
Well… Guess a lot women turn out to be men. We didn’t see them carry a child. Perhaps they will carry a child at some point, perhaps they won’t. But until then you can’t trust a single woman to be a woman until they have born a child in front of you.
You may want to get used to the idea that you’ve been attracted to men all along. I can help you with your coming out.
TIL my girlfriend is a man, according to this insane persons views on womanhood
I’m sorry you had to learn this way… I hope this doesn’t negatively impact your relationship with your boyfriend.
Today I learned infertile women are men. Women without children are men. Women who adopted but didn’t get pregnant and carry their children are men. Got it.
See how it’s not that cut and dry?
Must have taught yourself that one, as nobody ever said that.
This is the most insane thing I’ve ever read 😬
There is a difference between biological sex (male/female) and social gender (man/woman). Feel free to make this the hill you die on, if you’d like. My hill is the left fawning over tolerance for Islam without understanding that it’s an exclusivist fundamentalist proselytizing religion that has no sizeable liberal movements. There is no version of Islam that is like the Unitarians, UCC, etc where the holy book is understood to be a product of its times. Sufism is close insofar as their mysticism makes them chill, but they’re not universalists. I have no desire to import proselytizing religionists of any culture or creed, and certainly no tolerance for the same.
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What the hell planet have you been living on? Its done constantly.
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maybe you should stop watching conservative media, for example ditch Joe Rogan as a start.
LOL! Joe Rogan isn’t a Conservative. Libertarian at best.
what are you talking about, he is platforming and agreeing with everyone from the arch-conservatives all the way to the alt-right retards in the last few months.
He also agrees with a ton on the left, which is why I said Libertarian. If you actually listen to him it’s pretty impossible to miss he’s fiscally and constitutionally conservative and pretty damn liberal socially.
This is a definition dispute, not biological. Mostly anyway. I could have this conversation with a lot of people and it wouldn’t be any sort of hate speech, but it’s pretty obvious what you’re about here.