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18
Thoughts on HumHub? (lemmy.nz)
submitted 1 month ago by Dave@lemmy.nz to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world
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Over time I've been on the lookout for social media for family to use. I haven't really found anything suitable, key thing is that posting photos and videos needs to be user friendly. For example, Friendica all but requiring you to upload your video to YouTube and post the embedded video is just not gonna fly.

I've seen Zusam in the past, which looks like it could become something but I don't think it's ready for me to try to get extended family into. (It's worth mentioning here that certain extended family have shown interest in using something like this)

Recently I've had a look around at some Enterprise social solutions, and have had a play with HumHub. It has a much more familiar look, things are separated into spaces that are similar to Facebook groups, and while media uploads aren't perfect I think they will work well enough.

HumHub has modules, many of which cost a decent amount of money, because they target the enterprise market. However, the community version is open source and the base features and free modules seem to work well.

Does anyone have experience using it? Any warnings I should know about? Any similar software that does a better job?

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Argh! I've posted a similar question; basically, I want a private alternative to Facebook, with wall-like functionality. The second minimum requirement is that there be an iOS app that makes posting easy -- including initiating a picture or video capture. So:

  • #1: private, b/c it's family sharing toddler pictures
  • Also #1: super user friendly, because (100% - 1 person) involved are non-technical
  • Also #1: has to have a better user tool than an SPA. No web interface can ever be anywhere as good as a native app can be, and I will die on that hill.
  • #2: emoji reactions, and threaded comments

I'm not interested in installing and evaluating a dozen different servers, so like you I've been hoping that people with similar goals would narrow down the field a bit. There's no way I'd convince enough of the family to go along with evaluating all of the options anyway, and IME what works fine for me can often fall apart when other people come onboard.

I'd convinced myself that Friendica -- venerable, proven, reasonably popular -- would fit the bill, especially because the design doesn't assume public-by-default, like Mastodon or Lemmy, and the potential damage of exposed content, either through my misconfiguring the server, or some upgrade assuming users want everything public by default, is high. I'd prefer a project where the developers assume private-by-default, and invite-first. Lemmy isn't really right, because we're following people, not communities; Mastodon has a better model, following users, but then its conversation threading is kind of shit for this purpose, and its reaction feature set is anemic. Circles was perfect, and beloved by the key parent involved, until it first made half of her posts invisible to her (and only to her and her husband), and then locked her out. This doesn't surprise me much, as Circles is based on Matrix, which frankly has the worst cryptography management I've even encountered. But if you're saying Friendica is that painful to post media on, then it won't work.

I'm leery of Humhub because of the quasi-commercial nature, and its youth. I've had too many experiences with initially semi-commercial platforms shifting, either suddenly or slowly, to increasingly commercial positions -- moving features from the "free" to the "paid" column. Vendor lock-in is a real issue with a dozen users.

So if Friendica is out, maybe Pixelfed? It seemed to me to be mostly indistinguishable from Mastodon, but if they have better comment threading, reactions, and I need to re-evaluate the AP clients to see if any would be user-friendly enough for the parents. I've used mostly Fedilab, and I'm not sure it's ideal. For one thing, it doesn't have support more than basic reactions: you can boost or favorite, but I am -- and I think you are probably -- looking for something with more variety, like emoji responses, right?

I'm watching the other reactions here, and my post on this topic is here. I may post a summary -- there are comparison charts, but they all tend to focus on feature set and fall short on the overall use case. On my thread,

  • Misskey was recommended as Facebook-like, and in particular, some of its forks have features the core project is missing. I always got the impression Misskey was a Mastodon-analog, which would make it not a good fit, so I've skipped over it. With Friendica out, I'm going to put Misskey back on the "possible" list.
  • Diaspora has also been recommended and is near the top of my list.
  • Smithereen was recommended, but the sparsity of the documentation -- not even a list of features -- put it down low on my list.
  • Hubzilla has a lot of documentation; it focuses a lot on content management -- assets, calendars, document sharing, etc. -- which will be fine if "easily post content to a feed" and "follow a user and view a stream of their posts" is a first-class interaction model.
  • Pixelfed is still an option. I just need to confirm/refute my "Mastodon, with pictures" perception. If my perception has been skewed by the fact that I'm interacting with Pixelfed through a (mainly) Mastodon app, then maybe it'll work. However, there isn't AFAICT a Pixelfed app, so if the only way to get to a more wall-like view is through a web interface, it's not going to work.

@acockworkorange@mander.xyz is also looking for this feature set / use case. I kind of feel as if it's more useful to think about this as a use case, because almost all of these projects can claim some or all of the requested features, and yet not satisfy what we're looking for in terms of user experience. This would be a great opportunity for another tool: a wiki with a list of applications & features, but with a discussion section and focused on winnowing projects by consensus about suitability. Again, lots of software that have the necessary functionality and which could be wrangled to do this, but still fail to be a good tool for the objective.

Edit

Probably not the best place to do this, because I'm the only one who can edit this, but:

I deleted the table, as it wasn't rendering on some mobile clients. The table was re-created in CryptoPad.

~~I'll go find a collaborative, wiki-like document thing with discussions that isn't G**gle.~~

Edit 2

The table is now here, as a CryptPad document. In an exercise of trust, it's open to edits. If vandals wreak too much damage, I'll restrict access, but that'll require creating accounts and requesting access, and all that shiz.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wow, good effort on that!

you can boost or favorite, but I am – and I think you are probably – looking for something with more variety, like emoji responses, right?

Honestly, this is low down on my list. Yes, it would be great, but I have had enough trouble finding something that handles uploading videos ok. Emoji responses are not a mandatory thing for me.

Pixelfed is an interesting suggestion. It always feels like it's intended to be public. Were you thinking each user would have to configure default privacy settings? I can see how to restrict to followers but haven't yet found how to stop anyone being able to follow you. I think for me, if a new user has to set up the privacy settings to stop them posting everything public, that's probably not the right platform.

BTW there is PixelDroid as a dedicated Pixelfed app, but it's only on Fdroid.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Thanks!

Agreed: some items are basic functionality that should reliably and easily work. Image & video uploading are among them. I'll add some verbiage on the CryptoPad page about options which have been rejected simply because they don't support the most basic features.

It's funny: I've been similarly searching for a good chat platform, and there are two things which I personally don't care much about, but which a couple of my family members are insistent about: typing notifications; and gifs - as in, a widget where you can search for short gifs from e.g. Gfycat and have them inserted. My wife absolutely requires the latter.

That being said, my position on emoji responses are almost a core feature for a social media platform IMO. They're fast, easy, non-cluttering feedback, eliminating the need to type out some inane, two-word response. It's infuriating (to me) that Lemmy doesn't support them; it leads to such illuminating responses as "So much this!", "Yes!", but worst of all the lack subverts up/downvotes, which should be a tool for designating interest, not agreement. Not having emoji reactions muddies and dilutes any value voting has.

Pixelfed is an interesting suggestion. It always feels like it's intended to be public. Were you thinking each user would have to configure default privacy settings?

You may be right. I think I read that post visibility was configurable; if I can narrow the field sufficiently I'll start installing them and checking how they work. I do think federation would have to be disabled on any AP server.

I can see how to restrict to followers but haven't yet found how to stop anyone being able to follow you.

Yeah, that would be a blocker.

I think for me, if a new user has to set up the privacy settings to stop them posting everything public, that's probably not the right platform.

Agreed. The service must be at least configurable to be private-by-default.

BTW there is PixelDroid as a dedicated Pixelfed app, but it's only on Fdroid.

I think I found an iOS app, too... but I looked at so many servers last night I may be misremembering.

The table isn't rendering on my mobility client, so I'm going to delete it from the post; I'll keep the CryptoPad document going as long as I can, but it's open edit, and I'm hoping others will contribute to it.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I agree with you on how core emoji reactions are. They solve many problems and I at times I've also wished Lemmy had them, but given that I can't even find a platform that is private by default and supports a good video user experience. It's clear I'm going to have to settle in some respect.

Is federation or similar mandatory for you? As in, do you want something that allows your users to interact with users that are not part of your family and not on your platform, eventually able to completely replace the mainstream social media? Or is a completely closed platform ok, in terms of it's only your family and friends, and people have to go elsewhere (e.g. back to facebook) to interact with others?

Personally I'm not as wary of HumHub just because of it's commercial nature. Maybe a little, because some features are paywalled. But for example, I use Nextcloud, developed by a company, and trust it more for this task because of that. I use Photoprism, which the base edition is FOSS but they have proprietary extras that you pay for (like HumHub). I use Home Assistant, though I think they recently transitioned to a non-profit so maybe that's a little different, but they charge for a cloud connected component. I use ente, who are FOSS but are a company that charge if you don't want to selfhost.

HumHub have been around 10 years, so they aren't exactly new. Plus as it's extendable, perhaps one day a gfycat or emoji reaction plugin will be added (or if you have the skills, maybe you could make one).

[–] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I agree with you on how core emoji reactions are. ... It's clear I'm going to have to settle in some respect.

So, in thinking about this in more concrete terms (as opposed to vague dissatisfaction), I suspect what we really want is a blogging platform with robust authenticated reader interaction tools.

The issue with AP, and therefore most of these servers, is that (a) it's expected to be public by default (the privacy point you mention), but almost more fundamentally (b) they're aggregators. People either to a bunch of people and get a feed of a bunch of posts by different people (Mastodon/X); or they join a community and see a bunch of posts by different people (Lemmy/Reddit).

I think what we want is blogging software, with an endless stream of content posted by a single user, but with reactions and threaded conversations per post. I've been thinking how this could be achieved on various AP platforms, but while you can almost get there with groups/channels/communities, the sticking point is that they are all ultimately designed around any member being able to post top-level content. I haven't seen any system yet that (easily) allows restricting posting by individual accounts.

I need to look at pump.io clients, because I think pump.io started as more of a blogging protocol. And the more I think about it, the more I believe a private blogo is a better foundational model.

Is federation or similar mandatory for you?

No. In fact, I suspect it may work against the privacy requirement. I expect that, even if one of the federated servers met all of the requirements, federation would have to be disabled to prevent leakage. Although, at least one server supports authenticated pull (one of the Misskey forks), I'm guessing it's not likely that federation will be needed.

As in, do you want something that allows your users to interact with users that are not part of your family and not on your platform, eventually able to completely replace the mainstream social media?

For me, no. I want my SIL to be able to easily post pictures and videos of my toddler niece, and all the family members to be able to oooh and aaaah, and react with little heart and exploding brain emojis, and comment on how the fact that she climbed a jungle gym is a sign she's sure to be an Olympic athlete. The parents absolutely do not want those videos showing up in TikTok.

Or is a completely closed platform ok, in terms of it's only your family and friends, and people have to go elsewhere (e.g. back to facebook) to interact with others?

Ideally, it'd support ActivityPub. I'm not sure how; perhaps through the user creating channels and setting a federation flag, or marking it as public. I think the expectation that people will understand that inviting someone from another platform effectively makes all of that content public, might be bit much to assume. So I think having private and public channels, where public channels are federate-able would be fine. But I'd rather not have federation than have a system where people are prone to make privacy mistakes. Is there an option I'm missing?

I use Nextcloud, developed by a company,

Yeessss; I think that's a little different, because NextCloud was forked off of the completely open source OwnCloud, which was well-established and license protected long before NextCloud came along. If NextCloud tried any shenanigans, they'd be eviscerated. HumHub is a bespoke solution, right? So they can't be accused of stealing an OpenSource project's s code.

I use Photoprism, which the base edition is FOSS but they have proprietary extras that you pay for (like HumHub).

Yeah, this is a good example. I use it, too, although I admit I've considered, and regularly revisit, alternatives purely because of this quasi-free nature. So much of PhotoPrism is built on free libraries; the project uses something like 120 OSS libraries. How much of their income do you think they contribute to those projects who's work their taking advantage of?

I use Home Assistant, though I think they recently transitioned to a non-profit

I've been using it for two or three years myself; it's always been OSS & free software, AFAIK.

they charge for a cloud connected component.

That's a service. I have no issue with charging for a service, because it's an ongoing cost to the hoster.

Actually, I don't have any issue with anyone charging for their software, either; it's just that I won't use it, and I don't trust quasi-free projects. That's just from experience. Most end badly, either by being bought out and going totally commercial, or just slow enshittification for the non-paying customers.

I write software for myself, and give it away free because it costs me nothing to do so. And I've written software libraries that I know, for a fact, are being used as backbone code for a not insignificant chunk of the internet. I've never been paid by any commercial company taking advantage of my work, and have little sympathy for people charging for software that's 90% other people's freely given code. Which is most software today. You write the entire stack from scratch, including the compiler, like Excel once was? Hell yeah, you deserve to charge for it. Otherwise, you're just profiting off other people's work.

HumHub have been around 10 years, so they aren't exactly new. Plus as it's extendable, perhaps one day a gfycat or emoji reaction plugin will be added (or if you have the skills, maybe you could make one).

Huh. Never heard of them before a week or so ago. I wouldn't completely discount them because of the semi-free model; I just am putting them down on the list.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think largely we are aligned on what we are looking for in a platform. The private blog idea is interesting. I normally consider blogs as public, are there private blog platforms?

So much of PhotoPrism is built on free libraries; the project uses something like 120 OSS libraries. How much of their income do you think they contribute to those projects who’s work their taking advantage of?

I don't see it like that. OSS is people releasing their work allowing it to be used commercially without limitation (other , it's what they wanted when they picked the licence, or they would have picked a different one.

Actually, I don’t have any issue with anyone charging for their software, either; it’s just that I won’t use it, and I don’t trust quasi-free projects. That’s just from experience. Most end badly, either by being bought out and going totally commercial, or just slow enshittification for the non-paying customers.

On the other hand, projects die when the maintainers lose interest. I would like a platform that I know is going to stick around. That's a difficult ask though, if it's a company like HumHub, it's very possible if the company goes under it will just die. On the other hand, something like Zusam, if the maintainer loses interest it will likely also die. It would be nice to have some confidence in the longevity of the platform before diving full steam onto it. But I guess at this point, finding something that works is hard enough, without worrying about that!

I do have reservations about HumHub, but it's the first platform I've seen that even comes close to being a familiar feel for users. I'm considering the other idea of using Dokuwiki as well, which I guess comes in as being more similar to your blogging idea.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think largely we are aligned on what we are looking for in a platform. The private blog idea is interesting. I normally consider blogs as public, are there private blog platforms?

Sure. If nothing else, you could proxy it through an authenticated endpoint, requiring people to log on to view it. But I don't know the blogging software space very well - there are probably projects with built-in support for this. I've started looking around; I suspect the ideal platform isn't so much a blogging platform, but it's designed more around a blog design.

If you come across one, please let me know! I'll keep updating that CryptoPad document. I also started a spreadsheet, which is better suited to the data than a document table, but CryptoPad doesn't have the ability to embed assets from other documents (other than images), so I'm just doing the table manually.

On the other hand, projects die when the maintainers lose interest.

Absolutely. Good projects attract multiple maintainers; there's a bit of Darwinism there. When one project I used was archived, I offered to take over maintainership; the author didn't want to hand it over to me, so I hard forked it and worked with distributions to replace the no-longer-maintained version with mine. It's the OSS lifecycle, right? And the best thing about OSS - if the maintained loses interest, someone else can simply take over. And if no-one does, maybe it isn't worth maintaining.

I would like a platform that I know is going to stick around.

This is so important! Especially for this purpose. Getting several people to join a platform and then put content on it introduces a lot of technical inertia. That's why it's important for me to reduce the odds of the project changing their terms of use; increasing costs; moving popular, free features to the "paid" column; and other shenanigans.

On the other hand, something like Zusam, if the maintainer loses interest it will likely also die.

See, I don't believe this. It's possible the project would die, but so often have popular projects lost their maintainers, and new people step in. They fork it, or have a peaceful transition of ownership, but the project carries on. Yes, some just disappear into obscurity, but the popular ones tend to keep going, sometimes under other names. X11 to XOrg; OpenOffice to LibreOffice; OwnCloud to NextCloud; so on and so forth. And increasingly, many projects add data migration paths from other projects, especially if they're popular. Many ActivityPub servers can import Mastodon account data, for instance.

I do have reservations about HumHub, but it's the first platform I've seen that even comes close to being a familiar feel for users.

It does look pretty close to ideal for what we've been discussing; I need to install it and try it out, because so far all other options have failed in some way. There's another forest of options in the blogging style, so I'm still optimistic, but I may try HumHub anyway.

I'm considering the other idea of using Dokuwiki as well, which I guess comes in as being more similar to your blogging idea.

Yeah, that was an interesting avenue; I suspect the user client experience will be where that fails for me. It can't require any technical expertise.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

See, I don’t believe this. It’s possible the project would die, but so often have popular projects lost their maintainers, and new people step in. They fork it, or have a peaceful transition of ownership, but the project carries on.

With Zusam, I don't think it's got that much of a following yet. I haven't heard of anyone on a self-hosted forum actually using it. Plus current development is slow (last release almost a year ago), so I do think it would die if the dev abandoned it.

Yeah, that was an interesting avenue; I suspect the user client experience will be where that fails for me. It can’t require any technical expertise.

I'm thinking that most of the non-technical people would be reading only, so it might be ok.

At this point I'm thinking of setting up a HumHub, a wiki (maybe Dokuwiki), and Zusam, and getting some of my most interested people in as a trial and see which one they prefer.

None of these options have emoji reactions or gifycat integration, though.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The emojis are something everybody in the family loves, and uses a lot. I don't know that it's a complete deal-breaker 🤷‍♂️

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago

For the wiki option, perhaps the wiki is just where the posts are made then you share the link in a chat app or something. Then the reactions could be in the chat app?

Or for the HumHub or Zusam options, maybe you could add the reactions/gifycat integration. The platforms seem like they would work well with them if someone would just contribute that functionality.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It really is an enterprise solution and I doubt your family will be happy with it.

Why not just set up a Snikket server and use that? You can easily create group-chats and share pictures and videos there and the interface is similar to WhatsApp.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The idea of a snikket server is good, but I feel it's not much different that any other chat app. HumHub works on both mobile and desktop, and provides many features above a chat app. It's more similar to Facebook groups (which people are already familiar with) but without the spying, whereas I don't get the benefit of Snikket over say Signal.

What is it that makes it unsuitable for families? It seems to be pretty familiar feeling to people used to Facebook.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Since Snikket is just an XMPP server, it can be used with desktop apps like Dino as well.

All the corporate gamification feature are probably quite annoying.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago

All the corporate gamification feature are probably quite annoying.

I might have missed that. What features are you thinking about? I haven't seen any points or badges or things like that?

[–] semperverus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Isn't Snikket just a fork of Conversations for Android? It doesn't look like it's any better either.

Conversations+Prosody all the way.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Conversations says to purchase on the play store. I don't think I'm gonna get good uptake it every user has to pay money.

[–] halm@leminal.space 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Fdroid is not suitable for the average person. The average person can install an app from google play, but Fdroid is quite a jump in steps, not to mention all the warnings that Android gives them, all but telling them not to do it.

[–] halm@leminal.space 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I wholly disagree with everything you just said, including that your friends and family by your own assessment are unable to rise above average skills. But you know them better than I do, of course 🤷

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's simple enough for me. And many of the people who have grown up with technology can probably work it out. But there is a huge difference in effort between the two.

Say my 70 year old uncle (that does not live nearby) needs to install Conversations.

Fdroid versionPlease go to this fdroid website. Click the button to download the APK. Now when you get a warning that you aren't allowed to install software from this source for security reasons, click the button to take you to settings, then switch the toggle to allow from this source. There's a message telling you that your phone and personal data are more vulnerable to attacks and you need to take responsibility for any loss of data that results from this, but just ignore that. Now once you've installed it please go and disable it. When someone messages you a link to an APK you should never, ever install it. That's a common scam and it will put a virus on your phone. We need to reenable this setting so you don't accidentally do that since a link can just start the download.

Next, please open the Fdroid app, and search for the Conversations app. For some reason I can't send you a link because the fdroid website doesn't seem to have an open in Fdroid button, I dunno why, maybe it depends on your phone or your browser, just search it up and make sure you install the right one.

Right, now when you click to install this, you're gonna have to go through all the above stuff about accepting the security risk of losing all your data again, because it's another app we are granting this permission to. Don't remove this permission though, we'll just leave this one open.

Installed that? Great, now depending on your phone it may or may not keep the app up to date so make sure you open Fdroid from time to time, click the button to update, wait for it to download the update, then tap the button to install and then tap the button to install (again). Make sure you remember to do this because security updates are important.

Now whenever you want to invite someone else in, make sure you send them these instructions so they don't go thinking they have to buy the Play store app.

Compare this to the Play store version when it's a free appHey here's a link, click it, and an app page will open in the store. Tap to install it.

Maybe we should agree to disagree, but I do not think I can just leave people to invite other people and sort it out on their own. I'm gonna be spending my days hand holding people. Maybe my family is dumber than average.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Your family isn't dumber than average.

Uu tech folks tend to forget/overlook that most people are clueless as to how mobile devices work. I have IT friends who know practically nothing about the Android file system, or how apps store (but don't sync) data, for example. And these are people designing/implementing/supporting complex systems.

Most people can't be bothered if there's more than one or two steps. I can't walk my "70 year old uncle" through configuring an app on his phone, over the phone. The stuff he says he sees make no sense at all. I'm like "no, that's not what you should see, what did you click on"?.

[–] semperverus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Its free on f-droid

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 0 points 1 month ago

As someone who is concerned that users won't be able to work out how to upload a video, asking users to install Fdroid seems a step too far.

[–] terminal@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Man ive been looking for something like this for a long time and never found a suitable option.

Post i had before about this same topic.

Humhub wasnt a solution for me since most of my family uses iPhones and not having a dedicated app would confuse them.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I notice their website says they are working on releasing apps for Android and iOS by the end of 2023. I can find the Android one but not the iOS one :(.

Luckily most of my family uses Android.

Now you mention it, I remember seeing your post. Disappointing that you never found something. Was the lack of iOS app the only thing that put you off HumHub?

[–] terminal@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

The lack of ios app deterred me from even testing it. I play tech support for my family enough to know an app would be necessary.

[–] shertson@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have the same issue. I want something simple but has encryption, native mobile apps for both Android and iOS, and threading. Facebook style posts with comments would be great.

For now we're using matrix and element bc I can find anything better. Unless something more compelling comes along we'll probably migrate to something xmpp based like snikket.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I don't even care about encryption (except normal TLS). If the intent is that it's for sharing within the family, generally with people being able to see each others' stuff, and I also control the server, it doesn't seem that important.

Circles seems like it might fit much of what you're after. It's based on Matrix and is intended for this kind of use case, but I don't think it's mature enough to onboard everyone to just yet. Them having lost FUTO funding means it will also probably develop at a slower rate now that's it's back to volunteer time (with the main devs likely losing enthusiasm after having that funding cut).

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We tried it and didn't like the clunky UI.

We also tried Lemmy but it was a bit of a nuisance to maintain.

In the end we settled on a forum with a wiki.

We tried a few forums but in the end Flarum was the nicest, Just a bit of a pain to set the domain to be dynamic but it can be done with some PHP, alternatively, just use a reverse proxy with dnsmasq and wireguard pointing to that DNS.

As for a Wiki We have tried mediawiki, WikiJS And a couple others. I would recommend dokuwiki. (I hear good things about bookstack too).

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I've tried Flarum in the past, but it really doesn't handle media well. Just looking on the demo site now, no option to add a video, and to post an image you need to use markdown to add an image URL.

Is that different when it's not the demo site?

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's a plugin that does it, FoF or something, and then you can upload an image from your device and it's pretty good. Some videos play others require downloading after uploading though.

Our family uses a post in flarum for a monthly feed and then moves a few of those images into a dokuwiki page with the gallery plugin.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh I should investigate the plugins.

With your family, do you have non-technical and elderly users participating and doing OK with it?

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, I don't. And that's going to be one of our big differences here. Everyone in my family is tech literate and knows at least a little bit of programming.

I would strongly suggest dokuwiki. It's like having a forever Journal of Family affairs and I really like it. I know it's not quite the social media aesthetic but in my experience I found it to be the thing that stuck.

I would argue against Mediawiki though. It may be more user-friendly for some family members, but the maintenance becomes a nuisance And pulling things out of the database involves half a dozen joins.

Even though dokuwiki editing is text in markup, It's not a hard concept to grasp and the simplicity makes it feel more tangible which may be appreciated by older family members.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I personally have a Mediawiki set up that my wife and I have used for years, but it's not something I want to share wider. I haven't found it hard to maintain, though (I'm using the docker version).

How do you use the Dokuwiki? Do you create a page for each family event with pictures and videos and things? Then other people can go and have a look? What kind of organisation structure do you use? How do others learn that there is a new page to see?

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I suppose the problem that I had with Media Wiki is that every update would break extensions. Particularly mathjax and semantic media Wiki. I too amusing it with Docker which helps a lot.

So docuicki has a recent pages view which is really good and lists the user that made the edit. That's what we use for a feed. There's also an RSS plug-in that will display other feeds which is kind of nice if you want to discuss other articles.

We create Journal pages that link out to pages for events etc. The events are also linked to from a start page. We display the backlinks using the footer plugin.

Whilst it's a bit different from social media in that there is no feed, it's really nice that it provides, like a database of our family's life in history.

We even have pages for cars and repair logs, computers and updates, everything. The struct plugin is amazing And you can always pop it open in SqliteBrowser too!

I've tried a couple of things and I just keep coming back to dokuwiki because it's the best compromise.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago

Ah I don't have that many extensions in Mediawiki so I have probably had a smoother experience that you.

Thanks for describing your wiki setup. Being able to look back at all your events in a sort of giant scrapbook must be awesome. I'm not quite sure it will do the job I'm looking for, but I really like the idea so I think I'll have a deeper play.

I have non-technical users doesn't mean it won't work for us, because I'm sure they can read even if they can't edit, and that's mostly what they would be doing with any solution. Looks like there's also an android app.

[–] mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why not a private Lemmy instance?

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 4 points 1 month ago

I don't think Lemmy is really a good format for this. Many of the users won't be familiar with Reddit or forums, and it's better suited to strangers ranking things with the votes. Facebook style I think works better for people who now each other, and especially when they are only familiar with facebook.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Do you want this social media to be for your family to use only with family members or for them to use with family and beyond?

Revolt could be good as a local family group chat if you like the discord style. You've probably already tried it but Pixelfed/mastodon/misskey sound like the easiest to get family on board with and seem like they would be good family social media platforms IMO.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In my experience none of the federated platforms handle video well, especially the facebook like platforms. They are built around things being public, and expect you to upload to youtube or some other video site in order to post a video. If they let you upload videos at all, it's as an attachment. Admittedly HumHub is a bit like that, but it's not too janky from a user experience perspective.

One thing I liked about Zusam is the automatic resizing of videos to make them reasonably sized. If I record a 2 minute video, it can be 300 or 400MB. Zusam can be configured to resize the video to a set maximum size in order to make it more reasonable for people watching. HumHub doesn't do this, but I have wondered if I could use a cron job and ffmpeg to do it.

Do you want this social media to be for your family to use only with family members or for them to use with family and beyond?

I haven't decided yet. Initially we'd start with people who know our kids. But if some of those people wanted to set up a page for their own kids, they wouldn't want some of the people on our page who they don't know. And they might want people on their page that don't know our kids. So then all the HubHub privacy settings come in handy where people can create a space and control who can see what.

Revolt could be good as a local family group chat if you like the discord style.

I don't really think that's something that will be familiar enough to people, especially grant parents and other family of that generation. And I don't think a group chat is what I'm after, self hosting a group chat doesn't seem to have many advantages over say a Signal group chat.

You’ve probably already tried it but Pixelfed/mastodon/misskey sound like the easiest to get family on board with and seem like they would be good family social media platforms IMO.

These are generally public, and even if you have it set up as a private instance with no federation then it still feels like a shouting at the void kind of platform. None of the family I have in mind use twitter or mastodon, but everyone uses facebook. So I'm aiming for that sort of a feel. But IMO Friendica is not something I feel is good enough yet from a user experience point of view, the same with Diaspora*.

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 month ago

I could never get mastodon to work with an app without using SSL.

I much prefer setting up a VPN and reverse proxy without having to deal with SSL. So it was really annoying not being able to use an app on the phone to connect to it.

[–] chips@startrek.website 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hey there! HumHub sounds pretty promising for what you're looking for. It's great that it has that Facebook group-style setup since it's something a lot of people are familiar with. The community version being open-source is definitely a plus too. I'd say give it a spin and see if your family vibes with it.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 month ago

What I'm trying to avoid is on boarding a bunch of people to some platform then working out that it doesn't work for us and having to get everyone set up on a new platform! I was hoping to hear from others who had tried it, or others who have other solutions that work for them.