• sudo22@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Licensed concealed carriers have a lower violent crime rate than the general public. So its unhinged to ban these individuals from carrying thinking it’ll stop criminals.

    • Poob@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Again, I wasn’t commenting about the ban. Just the desire to carry a gun in public.

      • sudo22@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Ah gotcha. Its about wanting to be safe. Violence happens unfortunately, so I concealed carry to give me the ability to defend myself (and more importantly my partner) if I ever am faced with that.

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          No offense but that is extremely paranoid. I love in a not so great part of a major city and have never really felt unsafe enough to feel the need to carry. Hell, even my step dad, who was a police officer and has been shot at, does not feel the need to carry. I guess I could see if you live somewhere super dangerous like St Louis or Wichita but it seems a bit silly otherwise.

          Also, shouldn’t your partner be the one carrying of they are the less safe of the two of you?

          • sudo22@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I don’t see it as paranoid. I totally agree with you its unlikely I’ll ever need it, but it costs me nothing to concealed carry where I can. Worst case my pants are slightly less comfortable, best case I save a life.

            My partner is disabled and is of a very small stature which means I’m a far faster and more accurate shot so I carry when its the 2 of us. If theyre alone they carry a lower power pistol so they can handle using it.

            • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Just to let you know, there is a near zero percent chance that it will save any life at all. And no, worst case is not that your pants are slightly less comfortable. Bad case would be you accidentally leaving it somewhere (lots of cases where people remove it while in the sitter and forget about it). Worst case would be you using it when it absolutely, positively is not necessary which again, there is a near zero percent chance it would be needed. If you are fine with all of that, that is okay but don’t be under the impression that there are zero downsides outside of uncomfortable pants.

              • sudo22@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                No youre right, it was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

                I keep a very close eye on defensive gun legality and cases (Armed Attorneys is a great Youtube channel to start with if you’re interested). You’re right there are many things that can go wrong. I do my best to stay educated on the pitfalls others run into, I pay for carry insurance as well to help with legal fees if I ever do need to use it.

          • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            I’m not in st louis but I’ve had a knife pulled on me for attempting to enter walmart. Luckily however the guy decided not to attack, idk if it had anything to do with me grabbing the grip of my carry pistol or not, but I’d imagine it’s pretty likely that’s the reason he started running away.

            Paranoid or not, I was able to afford food for that night and avoid being stabbed, so I’ll just consider it my “good luck charm.”

          • sudo22@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Crime happens everywhere, some places more then others sure. But I prefer to have the right to the tools to protect myself, rather than just hope that I’ll never need them.

    • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Licensed concealed carriers have a lower violent crime rate than the general public.

      Than the general public in America maybe, but legal gun owners in other countries have a violent crime rate of functionally zero, since they’re properly vetted through laws that aren’t dogshit.

      But even giving you that point, what about all the violent crime those permissive laws enable?

      Over 70% of mass shooters use legal firearms. Of the remaining, most are teenagers who took the poorly secured firearm of a family member.

      There is no magic gun fairy distributing illegal firearms. Every firearm in the hands of a criminal was either bought legally, stolen from a “responsible gun owner” who didn’t secure it, straw purchased or purchased through a loophole.

      Nevertheless, the pro-gun community opposes more robust background checks, mandatory safe storage laws or the closing of loopholes.

      And what does the public get in return? Mostly just shot because none of the pro-gun promises have come true.

      Good guys with guns intervene in 3% of shootings. The crime rate remains the same as comparable countries. The country is no more free when measured by any metric except guns. The government spies on and kills its own citizens.

      The gun laws are a failure.

      • sudo22@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t feel like writing an essay to address all your points, I don’t have the time right now I’m sorry. Ultimately it comes down to the fact the highest law (and most state constitutions) of the land gives us the inalienable right to arms. Period. (And no “well regulated” does not mean legal regulations)

        I believe we would be far better off dealing with the root of violence, like many European countries have done but gun control advocates like to only focus on gun control laws. People with financial, health, reproductive, and employment security don’t commit violent crimes. Things like labor protections, maternity/paternity leave, mandatory vacation time, physical and mental healthcare that won’t bankrupt you are some of the things that dramatically reduce all violent crime regardless of the tool used.

        Look at violent crimes in the US compared to the UK for things like murder using only the human body (ie kicks, punches, strangulation, etc), its lower per 100k in the UK and many other European countries. There’s no body control laws restricting how strong or trained your body can be, yet its lower. Its because people who’s needs are actually met don’t need to turn to or are driven to crime, our social protections in the USA suck ass and need to be fixed.

        • SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I agree with you. Even if the US got rid of every single gun in the country we’d probably still have just as many murders. There’s something else at play here that causes us to be violent. As a general rule happy people don’t kill others. Legislation to fix our social issues would go a long way towards reducing violence, but it’s a whole lot easier to just say “guns bad”.

          • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Even if the US got rid of every single gun in the country we’d probably still have just as many murders.

            Absolutely not. Your odds of surviving a knife attack are an order of magnitude higher than of you are shot.

        • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Yeah sounds good. How about we take your guns now and when you’ve finished building all of that, you can have them back?

          After all, your post is clearly admitting that American society isn’t fit for the near indiscriminate sale of guns to citizens.

      • Jeremy [Iowa]@midwest.social
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        1 year ago

        other countries have a violent crime rate of functionally zero

        The US isn’t far removed from homicide rates of other countries when comparing the rates.

        Ironically, you highlight the problem is violence and the drives to it over the firearms.

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      That’s a horrible selection bias though. That is basically saying “this group of people with no violent crimes in their records has a lower violent crime rate than the general public which does.” Of course they do.

      • sudo22@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yes. You’re right, these people are vetted by the state and authorized because they passed BG checks and firearms proficiency tests. Which is why a law targeting this group is dumb (beyond just being unconstitutional).

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Definitely should have been in your initial point since I have often seen that point used by gun nuts as if they are some paragon of lawfulness. Permitted concealed carry owners are definitely not the ones committing violent crime in New Mexico. Can’t really say the same for quite a few other states that allow permitless concealed carry though.