Person explains why thing is worse now:
"Management"
this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
272 points (98.2% liked)
movies
1746 readers
470 users here now
Warning: If the community is empty, make sure you have "English" selected in your languages in your account settings.
A community focused on discussions on movies. Besides usual movie news, the following threads are welcome
- Discussion threads to discuss about a specific movie or show
- Weekly threads: what have you been watching lately?
- Trailers
- Posters
- Retrospectives
- Should I watch?
Related communities:
Show communities:
Discussion communities:
RULES
Spoilers are strictly forbidden in post titles.
Posts soliciting spoilers (endings, plot elements, twists, etc.) should contain [spoilers] in their title. Comments in these posts do not need to be hidden in spoiler MarkDown if they pertain to the title’s subject matter.
Otherwise, spoilers but must be contained in MarkDown.
2024 discussion threads
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
It always is. Once a bean counter produce an excel sheet, it is a sacrosanct document, regardless of if it makes sense or not.
No reason to blame a single accountant for the errors of a producer. Do you think producers take orders from accountants?
Yeah they do. If the accountant says the producer has X money to do something, then that's it. The producer will need to ask for more.
This is how it works everywhere. This is why it's so fucked up when you see companies with a higher budget for new hires than for keeping the staff. I can assure you that one or more accountants filled out an excel sheet and it has to track.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I’ve heard once a quite from a fellow, he had mentioned something to the effect of “brevity, or saying something concisely, seems to me to be the essence of what one would describe as simultaneously humorous and intelligent when presented as an idea.”
also nice, tru
VFX artist explains why CGI in films is worse now
Article includes screenshot from The Mummy Returns which is from 2001 and is therefore old enough to watch any of the other films mentioned.
It's a bad example anyway because that CGI is really bad even for the time. I was watching Stargate the other day, and even that movie has better CGI and it's older.
It helps that Stargate could get away with stuff that that would have to be done by VFX now. They had underpaid extras suffering heatstroke when these days some of the budget would've been used for digital crowds.
The other effects were somewhat standard rotoscope energy blasts and compositing the water effects.
Had to read it a few times to really appreciate this, thank you.
I watched Godzilla Minus One a couple of days ago. It was made by a small VFX team, tiny budget, and a director who planned it all out in advance and the results were really impressive.
Two more examples: Dredd and Ex Machina.
Love those movies. Everything Everywhere All At Once had a team of 4 VFX people, IIRC.
I've heard it had a small budget. For some reason, I had in mind $35 million and the result was impressive for that budget. Turns out it was $15 million!
Great movie overall elevated even more with fantastic VFX work to boot. Reminds me of old classics like Terminator 1 with a then unproven director James Cameron flexing his VFX background to achieve his big vision on screen stretching a relatively small budget (albeit T1 had his budget increased during production).
Don't count out the fact that shots are oftentimes split amongst multiple effects studios
Yea, and the way, AFAIU, that jobs are auctioned off to the lowest bidder. All around it feels like Hollywood just doesn't want to take the importance of CGI/VFX too seriously or let the sub-industry get too much power or too large a slice of the pie ... so instead it keeps them at an arms distance and culturally emphasises the idea that VFX aren't "central" to the quality of a film when in reality it's now a key part of the production/directorial process best integrated from the start (as Godzilla minus one demonstrated, apparently as I still haven't seen it and don't want to signup for netflix to watch it).
Yar matey! Step right aboard for yar viewing pleasure! Yo ho! 🏴☠️
Other Hollywood unions need to bust the studios' balls about this. It's the same shit they went through - and it ends the same way.
The phenomenon is now so ubiquitous that flaws are apparent even in trailers for unreleased movies, such as the forthcoming remake of The Crow.
This is a little unfair. It's well known that the marketing department will take and use the best shots as long as it looks good enough.
I found out recently that a poor guy on Speed (1994) had to rush through a CGI shot of the gap in the bridge for the bus jump.
You can see the difference between the trailer and the final film below.
is the trailer and film reversed? the top one looks better
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The worse one, the bottom, is from the trailer.
Trailers have long been known to use shots that didn't quite have the final VFX work.
It's an interesting perspective.
And it kinda tracks historically. So many of the great vfx moments in cinema history came out of production lining up for a killer moment and then focusing whatever the technology was on hand into pulling it off.
Captain Disillusion did a great little essay on Flight of the Navigator that touches on this idea. What a world of difference in the outlook and implementation of skills and manpower.
Did Infinity War have bad effects? Marvel have definitely missed the mark plenty of times, but I recall that one looking pretty solid. I think the only part I remember looking janky was Mark Ruffalo's head in the giant Iron Man armour, and that was pretty brief
I'm not sure if it's just the style, but somewhere after the first Avengers everything started to look fake in marvel movies. It may be that they left the more grounded stories/heroes/sets, but the more recent movies all come off as more obviously CGI.
I think you're right that it's just that they depicted more and more fantastical stuff over time. Like they stopped pretending that Iron Man's armour was actually a plausible mechanical thing and just made it magic. It still looked exactly like it should, but it felt less real because it was designed to be less realistic. But the effects on the Hulk, who looked consistent throughout, stayed just as believable for the whole series
I think infinity war had Mark Ruffalos magic floating head in it.
Idk I think it all looks fine. My gripe is the magic dis/reappearing helmets and armor. But that's a design choice, not a CGI complaint.
The only thing that looked jarring to me from those movies was the "And I'm Ironman" scene, but that's from Endgame
In other words, the Invisible Hand Of The Market has determined that the ideal quality of CGI for optimal profit is lower than previously believed.
Studios act like arbitrary VFX changes, a week before release, are "push a button and make it different."
They need to treat it like "go reshoot this crowd scene on location."
Post-production takes time. That's why you can't release the movie as soon as shooting ends. When you tell VFX to start over, it takes all of that time, again. You are throwing out the time they already spent. Some shots look like they got slapped together overnight because - thanks to you - they did.
And of course there’s an old dude in the comments on the article.
“When I was a youngin’, we worked and cared about the job. The kids just want to hang out. They come from bad schools today!”
That is always the answer. I’d say the old heads above him felt the same way.
In my field, we're actually suffering from decisions made 2 decades ago to fire the most expensive staff first after Y2k.
When we did so, we lost a LOT of our mentors and collected wisdom from talented, experienced staff at the pinnacle of their career. New staff and journeyman-level workers lacked the wisdom to understand why we did the whole job instead of rushing for a head-pat from management. Now, with a few generations behind us - work generations being shorter - we have a systemic problem where the new framework on which the crap is build is itself crap from a crap design using crap tools for crap reasons. And we don't visibly understand why that's leading to the poor results we're getting because we simply don't know better.
The skills gap is an insidious, layered problem that needs to be addressed even if it means a few (dozen) quarters where numbers do NOT go up.
This sounds exactly like Boeing (and a hundred other large corps.)
And his elders used to say the same old thing about him and his generation.
Furiosa cgi was not that bad, maybe a downgrade to it's 2015 predecessor but it was alright. I would want a healthy workplace more than a perfect cgi scene.
its* 2015 predecessor.
Sorry I always get confused. Edited.
Edit: Wait I'm still confused. Someone explain which one is correct. "Its" or "It's".
Think of "it" like a pronoun akin to "he" and "her" and so "its" is like "his" and "hers"
It's confusing because to say "Rebecca's" you would use an apostrophe, but you don't do that for pronouns. "It's" exists only as a contraction of "it is."
Saved this comment. Much love to everyone that helped.
It's - The contraction of "it is".
Its - When you indicate possession, for example: Its ice cream was delicious.
Furiosa also has some absolutely bonker stunts. Furry Road was going to make the pole boys using CGI but the stunt team told Miller they could do it for real. Furiosa has a bunch of insane motorcycle stuff, aerial stuff, and trucks climbing steep hills, many of them probably too dangerous to do with people.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Fans have long lamented the declining quality of computer-generated imagery (CGI) as a seemingly increasing number of blunders are picked up by eagle-eyed viewers upon almost every big release.
From movies such as Cats, Hulk and Aladdin to Avengers: Infinity War and the latest Mad Max instalment, Furiosa, on-screen glitches and some low-quality visuals have been jarring for moviegoers.
Rassoul Edji, a lead VFX artist in the film industry, shared his thoughts on the reasons behind the blunders in a post that has since gone viral on social media racking up over 18 million views.
Edji has worked on films including Seeker, Transformers: Rise of the Beasts, and Sonic the Hedgehog 2, according to his IMDB page.
Shot design and planning are no longer a priority, and we have a lot more work to get through in a shorter amount of time.
The artist also explained that “VFX is often used as a crutch to fix issues which should be fixed on set”, adding that a film that is fully CGI can be made very well and to a high quality “if it is planned well, changes aren’t constantly made, and the VFX teams have enough time to create and refine it.”
The original article contains 364 words, the summary contains 202 words. Saved 45%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
What I don't understand is why movies like Flash also look shitty although that one was getting postponed for literal years. Plenty of time to improve the visuals.
Elapsed time but not necessarily working time. Working time costs a lot more than elapsed time.
"WE got you more Time!" One of the worst things to hear. You've already blown through the budget with all the delays and changes. And you have to pick up a few additional shots from that studio they hired on the very cheap, because they don't match the rest of the film.
view more: next ›