With a electoral system like Ranked Choice voting, people would feel safe to vote for whomsoever they wish, as their vote would still be counted even if their preference didn’t win.
Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Some day we will be able to vote for who best represents our interests. We won’t need to grovel on our knees, begging for representationin government. We won’t need to wait for the Republican party to stop existing.
We can do it right now. We don’t have to get over a damn thing. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it would be the democrats who assume they are the only way forward.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
That’s A real hoot coming from the woman who gave us president Donald Trump.
Real stupid take from the lemmy user. At best the voters “gave” you trump.
Nah if not for Hillary, Bernie would have easily beat trump
Please go away, get out of public life and stop “helping.”
Being a dick to people is not going to get them to vote your way. Same with the ‘deplorables’ comment. I agreed with her on it, but it was a stupid thing to say in an election.
I think the deplorables comment would have been fine if they did try to cowardly walk it back immediately after in the typical miquetoast, ‘cater to everyone’ Democratic fashion.
“Cater to everyone but the left”
Maybe they wouldn’t have thought they had to if they could have counted on the left for any of the energy coming up with reasons why them not voting is everyone else’s fault.
The white left being shocked and outraged that they in fact do not get to call themselves the base when they have to be dragged kicking and screaming by their hair just to get into a poll booth, never mind to not be a fucking moron and vote green or some shit, never ceases to amaze me.
The Tea Party are the Republican base because they don’t have to be convinced to show up for the general you entitled fucking morons.
Oh right, when you’re running in a popularity contest and lose, it’s the fault of the people voting not your own. The fact that she couldn’t even be more appealing than a known conman, failed businessman, and reality TV host with zero political experience really says a lot.
Explain something to me. How can you simultaneously believe we don’t vote but care that we don’t vote? Biden won the 2020 general election so if we didn’t vote for him then who cares if we won’t vote for him in 2024?
So which is it?
I’m still convinced that only person insufferable enough to lose to Donald fucking Trump in 2016 was Hillary Clinton.
You can hate it all you want but in some level it’s a popularity contest and she is utterly utterly unlikeable.
Her smarmy q&a with those millennials was a fucking PR nightmare.
Yes, it’s like she took notes from her husband, but isn’t Smooth Willy enough to pull it off. I think it’s because deep down, she is just a bitch.
South Park said it best: “my wife is a crazy bitch.”
Lewis Black said her problem was that she never went away. I’d say that’s pretty spot on. Shitheads wants attention, wants to be important. Maybe if she’d given the public a break and then came back for a second act it would have been different for her. But we’re still in act one and it never ends.
Two things can be true at the same time.
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She is a target of mysgonstic flavored consisparcy theories.
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She truly is unlikeable with half measure policies while being woefully out of touch with the average person.
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She is / was 100x more qualified than Trump.
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American voters are idiots.
It’s easy to be more qualified than totally unqualified. She was the obvious choice, but her total lack of charisma to voters destroyed that.
The worst part is that more people voted for her, just not where it counts because she couldn’t be bothered to campaign there
Yeah, cause she’s an elitist piece of shit, which makes her unqualified to anyone with a fuckin brain.
Still more qualified than the woefully unqualified, elitist trash that is Trump. Lol
Sure, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Dem shills are dumb as fuck too, just not blatantly malicious like Republicans
Ok, but she got more votes across the nation in a nationwide election for a Federal job, so…?
As shitty as this sounds, does it matter whether or not she won the popular vote if that was not the metric for winning?
She, a career politician, should know that and her strategy was lacking.
Cause people are idiots…?
And she stole the election from Bernie…?
- She should have run on a platform that was better than “What else are you going to do, vote for Trump?”
- She shouldn’t have pushed trump as the pied Piper candidate in the first place.
She’s from the Chicago suburbs, fuck that entitled bitch.
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We literally had Trump instead of Bernie because she couldn’t get over herself.
Neolibs would rather see a descent into fascism than a true progressive agenda because billionaires will still thrive under the former. Sure, there’s the whole die roll about who gets caught up in the purges, but a real progressive administration could lead to less free money for them. The DNC would rather hand the reigns to the GOP while it sorts out the problem of people wanting a candidate like Bernie.
Alternative headline: Hillary Clinton hasn’t learned her lesson that she is tone deaf and should stay the fuck out of politics.
She needs to learn to shut the fuck up, because she doesn’t help.
This is like telling your SO to ‘just calm down’ when they’re really angry about something.
Hilary propped up Trump. Never forget that. The political turmoil we are currently in is directly because or her. Fuck her and the DNC
She got her second choice in 2016, like all centrists did.
Since when was she a centrist? Her congressional voting and action history put her way left of the party, way farther than Obama, and second only to Bernie Sanders.
She openly opposed gay marriage as a NYS senator. Her career has been over long before 2016.
Lie to someone else. Obama won the 2008 primaries because his healthcare plan was to the left of Clinton’s.
Centrists in congress made sure to limit Obama’s plan to what Clinton ran on.
She’s nothing but a centrist.
Wait, wait, wait, are we talking about the healthcare plan that was fundamentally based on the individual mandate from the Heritage Foundation?
Also, are you referring to this plan from Hillary?
Yes and yes. Obama ran on a public option and no individual mandate. Clinton ran on no public option and an individual mandate. The Heritage Foundation plan was still to the left of what Clinton ran on.
We got what Clinton wanted, but the voters wanted what Obama was selling. Even though it turned out to be a bill of goods.
I remember the 08 campaign. Her cronies also made a huge stink about flag pins, started the “Obama isn’t a citizen” rumors that Trump would run with later, and once she had lost the nomination because the party didn’t successfully quash her opposition for her, her supporters started a PAC to get McCain/Palin elected because Clinton’s cult would rather have Palin as VP than have a black man be president.
Clinton’s VP pick of Tim Kaine in 2016 was an additional “fuck you” to everyone to her left. I get that you’re trying to pretend that Clinton is someone that the left should be happy with, but Clinton is centrist at best. She’s a corporate owned neoliberal from the “triangulate between the meekest Democrat and the vilest republican” Third Way James Carville wing of the party.
Yes, she is absolutely a centrist.
Hillary Clinton is an avid follower of the Iron Law of Institutions
Blink 2 times if you are being held against your will
Apologies for actually knowing the history of the subject. I’ve had these debates with misinformed people on subject regarding Clinton, Biden, and so many others going back years. For some reason, far left people actively fall for made up right wing BS claims about Democrats.
Liberals translate ‘misinformed’ to mean anything I don’t like
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.
“The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.
“Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."
While the campaign also kept a close eye on Rubio, monitoring his announcement speech and tightly designing the tweeted responses to his moves, Clinton’s team in Brooklyn was delightedly puzzled by Trump’s shift into the pole position that July after attacking John McCain by declaring, “I like people who weren’t captured.”
Eleven days after those comments about McCain, Clinton aides sought to push the plan even further: An agenda item for top aides’ message planning meeting read, “How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
I remember something like this happening in Germany…some people like Von schleicher and Von Papen thinking if they propped up Hitler it would help the conservative old Gaurd consolidate power…not exactly the same but it looks the same and smells like shit to me
I remember something similar, the far left in Germany stabbing the Social Democrats in the back thinking Hitler coming to power would teach those establishment politicians a lesson and surely they’d get to bulldoze their way to lead next time!
“First Hitler, then Our Turn.”
I don’t think it’s fair to put Trump all on her. If we were to ask anyone 10 years ago if someone like Trump could win the presidency we all would have laughed. No surprise they tried to prop up an opposing candidate they thought was bad.
The Simpsons warned her, and she did it anyways.
I don’t think it’s fair to put Trump all on her
Why not? Her supporters blame Trump on anyone who ever thought about voting for Sanders in the primaries, regardless of who they voted for in the general, and have for nearly 8 years now.
Sanders campaigned for her in states she ignored because they were full of worthless flyover hayseeds who were beneath her. Her campaign didn’t seem to understand how the electoral college functions.
Her campaign WANTED to go up against Trump because they were unforgivably stupid enough to think that Republicans would be less energized by a charismatic con man than by Jeb Bush, Republicans’ presumptive frontrunner that no one wanted.
Clinton earned her loss multiple times over.
Yeah, that was exactly the feeling at the time. No one saw Trump coming.
I can only assume people making claims otherwise now are kids who have no understanding of the history involved.
I saw Trump coming. He did something no one else was doing at the time: acknowledge just how miserable life was for many Americans at the time. Other politicians have been content to pretend everything is great save for their pet policy projects, Trump said it’s all bad. In a post-COVID world this would be more effective save for his own history of failure and inaction, but people often have short memories and they will forget quickly if they get angry about something else.
Last thing anyone needs is the narcissist Hillary Clinton inserting herself where she doesn’t belong. I imagine voting enthusiasm will already be low because the choice between a failed conman and Weekend at Biden’s isn’t particularly enticing, so maybe Hillary can just fuck off for a bit and not make it worse.
Not just kids, white kids, nobody else needs to have it explained to them why throwing the election to punish the establishment does nothing to help anyone and in fact makes you not just a collaborator, but the most insidious and/or idiotic sort of one imaginable.
Their thinking is either, “I know how to defeat the fascists! Let the fascists win!” or much more likely underneath, “I know exactly where I stand on the hit list, I can wait it out for enough bodies to pile up so I can file my demands with the bodies as set dressing!”
The white left would see us all be made corpses before they ever tolerated the possibility that we might not choose to follow them without being convinced and compromised with.
I’ve read through several of your comments in this thread. Do you know any IRL leftists, or are you just assuming everyone is white from talking to people on lemmy?
Most of the leftists I know IRL aren’t white. And I’m sure some of them didn’t bother to vote for Hillary.
Literally everyone I know is either a leftist or comfortable in leftist spaces, and literally everyone I know thinks that the white “left” fuckasses who threw 2016 because counting votes instead of individual donors didn’t let them feel pandered to enough aren’t worth the air they breathe to spew their bullshit about what we made them do to us.
Dobbs is the white “left’s” child, they had the chance to abort, but they actively chose not to, and now they don’t get to abandon that child just because the fact that it wanders the neighborhood skinning small animals reflects bad on them.
Any real leftist with functioning brain cells either voted for Hillary or has owned up to the severe mistake that not doing that was, anyone else is just red-washing them being a fascist collaborator, and would live to see trial among the rest of the lot if the revolution they claim they want instead of voting ever actually came.
They don’t get to call themselves socialists while selling out the common laborer to republican governance, they don’t get to call themselves an ally while standing by as women are hung by the umbilical chord because republicans would rather let them die than allow the possibility that a woman can “pull a fast one on them,” they don’t get to call themselves anti-imperialists while making space for the president who handed Israel Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights getting back into office if it means they get to feel valid about using my people’s corpses as set dressing for the whole sickening display they want to paint for themselves as the saviors of us lowly ungratefuls who shall descend upon us with their divinely inspired marching orders that will surely brint about world peace and global communist revolution and surely won’t just get us all killed while they sigh and gaslight the survivors about how we just didn’t revolution hard enough for their brilliant plans to work.
I feel you. I just know a lot of black leftists that fall into that camp, so you constantly saying white leftists didn’t fit with my world view.
I emphasize white because it’s white mindset
Willful blindness to the perspective of the PoC who find themselves most at risk whenever one of these vote strike or punishment vote movements spins up
We DEFINITELY don’t need her help with any elections.
Honestly I hate hearing her voice even more than Trump’s, and I used to vote democrat.
She really just needs to get over herself and shut the fuck up. She lost to Trump. Why the fuck would anyone listen to her on how to beat him?
She’s not wrong.
Ah yes the fear tactic. Grow some brains and give the people with critical thinking a real reason to vote for someone, not because they have no choice
Hillary Clinton is irrelevant, and should get over herself.
Rich old bat, nobody cares; she might not be first for the guillotine but she’s definitely in the queue.
What political side even are you? I assume some far left tankie idiocy.
They don’t like to hear it, because the guillotine jokes are comforting to them, but calling for the mass execution of undesirables (no matter the flavor) is the most authoritarian loving thing there is. 100% tankie shit.
There are massive changes that need to happen in the west, but revolt and execution are not it.
They are just hoping they’ll be in the “in” crowd when the violence starts, not realizing that by a small whim of chance, they could actually be the ones being hunted. Wouldn’t be a comforting joke then.
Robespierre definitely found that one out.
I just hope they never try making those jokes in Germany, I don’t think their Bougyevik hearts could handle the irony of being prosecuted for accidentally stanning the most popular method of execution outside the camps during the Nazi reign of terror.
She should go hang out with her buddy Henry Kissinger, whatever he’s up to these days.
If she’s jaded about the whole thing, can’t say I blame her. If the dems had pushed to get rid of the stupid electoral college after Gore’s “loss” she might have been president.
That would have taken a Constitutional amendment and I don’t think that would have been possible any time within the last 24 years.
The Democrats never had anywhere near the majority needed and I doubt enough states would be willing to ratify it if they did.
I think the electoral college is stupid and archaic, but I also think we’re stuck with it for the foreseeable future.
You ever know until you try. They couldn’t even be bothered to get behind the idea. It’s bitten them in the ass repeatedly.
I think they did know, which is why they didn’t try. You need 2/3 of both houses of congress and a ratification by 3/4 of the states. There has been no time between 2000 and 2024 when that would have had the remotest chance of happening. All they would have done would be to waste taxpayer dollars on something performative.
Like I said, I don’t like the electoral college and I wish we didn’t have it, but we’re stuck with it.
You need 2/3 of both houses of congress and a ratification by 3/4 of the states
You don’t actually need Congress at all. You need 2/3rds of the states to initiate the process via the convention route, and 3/4 to ratify (so functionally, probably 3/4 of states, assuming that a state willing to ratify is also willing to initiate).
But functionally, there is no way that 3/4 of the states are going to make a change to shift power away from smaller states to larger states, which moving away from the electoral college would do (well, okay, it doesn’t have to do that, but if you want it to be moving towards a population-only weighting, which I think is the main reason that a lot of people on the left side of the aisle would like that to change, it does).
Okay, fair enough, but that’s not going to happen either.
It’s been estimated that as little as 2% of the population could kill an amendment if their state legislators voted likewise against it.
We don’t need amendments anymore, we need to uproot the whole fucking thing and start fresh, new state borders, new constitution, new rule of law.
They’ve rigged the game for long enough to justify flipping the table and pulling out the ol’ bully pulpit to smack the states into their fucking place.
Eisenhower set the precedent to flip the national guard around at their state governments if they act up, and Reagan set the precedent of cutting them off and letting them starve for funds until they get with the fucking program.
These subhumans want civil war anyways, let’s give them the war they’ll never forget again, and then let’s actually see that damn southern occupation through to the proper finish this fucking time!
There’s a workaround that several states have signed on for. Your state allocates all of the electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote. But they only do it once enough states sign on to make a majority.
It sounds great, but I would be very surprised if any red states went along with it.
To be fair, I don’t think she would have made a good president even if the electoral college didn’t exist. She would have been better than Trump but that’s not saying much, because a shit sandwich is better than Trump.
Why wouldn’t she have been good? She was one of the few people in Congress that actually cared about understanding and enacting policy (ie actually getting stuff done). Her platform was the only one with actual details on how to accomplish the stated goals on a legal level.
Not that any of that matters now, since her comment here is pretty shit.
But I don’t like the re-writing of history on how she was a million times better candidate than Trump and had a ton of made up conspiracy nonsense being claimed about her at the time.
What did she get wrong? The Iraq War vote was a huge one in my opinion, but of course this entire question depends on your individual values.
Really? You’re bringing up that long since debunked canard? I can only assume you don’t know anything about the context because you were a child when said vote happened.
Hint: That vote in question wasn’t actually about allowing a war. And it didn’t help that Bush actively lied about what intel we had from Iraq and Afghanistan. He really should have faced charges for that alongside Cheney.
The thing with Hillary Clinton is that, even conspiracy theories aside (because I’m not a conspiracy theorist), her morals are ambiguous. She is not “clean”, with some questionable things she’s done over the years, including some potential corruption.
Now, I’m not saying she’s the most corrupt in the bunch, but she’s not the saint that sometimes the Democrats make her out to be. I’m also not holding her to a higher standard, because that’s bullshit, but what I’m saying is if we are taking the moral high ground here, we should pick a better mascot.
Ultimately it comes down to whether would she have been a better president than Trump? Without a doubt. But would she have been a good president? I’m not convinced.
Feel free to point out what corruption and morals you’re referring to that aren’t based on conspiracy theories or made up right wing mud-slinging then.
I remember a lot of the usual made up claims about her being anti-LGBT despite her long history of actually supporting the LGBT community (and voting or not voting for gay marriage in NYS is not a gotcha about her history or her reasons then).
It reminds me a lot of the made up nonsense about Biden’s history with the African American community that right wingers and leftists were trying to mudsling over, yet said groups still being perplexed why he continued to have such massive support in said community. Because despite twisting of statements from decades ago, it was his actions that mattered. And that there’s context to those actions (such as how the black community itself was the primary pushing force behind the 1994 crime bill).
Right message, very much the wrong messenger. Like it or not, Hillary, a significant number of people in this country despise you. I don’t think that’s at all fair, but them’s the breaks. You’re not helping.
“Shut up, you’re voting for who we want you to vote for because we say so” is never the right message. Centrists will never think of another one.
That wasn’t really the message. The message is more: “Please stop with the hyperbole. You know that Donald Trump is the worst possible candidate imaginable.” Which is absolutely true.
Ok? Then Biden should be begging for votes, doing anything within his power to get progressive and leftist votes and telling moderates and liberals to get over themselves.
No? Oh so just more of the same finger wagging from the usual suspects convinced that one more lecture should do the trick.
I mean, I agree it would be great if Biden was a better candidate. I’d be a whole lot less worried about a second Trump presidency if that were the case. But he’s not a better candidate. He is who he is. And though he hasn’t earned your vote, you should give it to him anyway because it’s in your best interest to do so.
you should give it to him anyway because it’s in your best interest to do so.
No.
Focus your lectures on moderates and liberals for once in your goddamn life. I’m done being held to a different standard.
Ok, so what’s your solution, then? Actually - first, let’s make sure we’re on the same page about the basics: do you agree that Donald Trump would be fundamentally worse for America than Joe Biden? Second, do you agree that any candidate other than the winners of the Democratic and Republican primaries basically stands no chance of becoming president?
Again, ask moderates and liberals that question. And then ask them if Trump is such a danger why didn’t they fume at Biden for blocking the rail strike? Or raising the defense budget? Or forcing federal workers back to the office? Or going around Congress to ship weapons to Gaza? Why didn’t they do anything in support of progressives and leftists for the past three years?
Why is it the people who have gotten fucked over by Biden are being told to vote for him rather than telling Biden, moderate voters and liberal voters they cannot win elections on their own and thus they must make material compromises with the people they’re depending on?
You’re trying to squeeze blood from a stone here. I’m telling you I’m done propping up procorporate trash candidates for moderate and liberal voters. If they would rather lose to MAGA than make material compromises with leftists and progressives that’s on them.
If Biden really believes Trump is such a a danger then he should be on his knees begging for votes. Or is his ego worth more than democracy?
