China is making a lot of moves towards efficiency, their train network for example is outstanding and they’ve invested huge sums in renewables. Plus it’s silly comparing effects of different sized populations,
The average Chinese person uses far less energy than the average American, about 10.1 tons of carbon pollution annually compared to 17.6 tons in the U.S., according to analyses from the Rhodium Group.
Yes they invested enormously in high-speed train lines. But look on satellite image around those train stations, new city blocks have massive roads everywhere, 5 lanes in each direction, plus in parallel another set of toll roads. Even if those roads were empty , the cement and steel for all that has contributed enormous quantity of CO2 to the atmosphere.
Chinese emissions per capita are higher than european average for many years now, however they always pick the worst country in the world for comparison statistics.
lopq’s original comment is correct for ‘whole west’ too. the second part is also true per capita.
By the way europe also has a lot more people than united states, it’s not irrelevant.
Firstly, US is not the only country with higher emissions per capita outside of europe. If you wanted to say a truthy but mostly irrelevant statement in this context you succeeded, but remember Canada Australia and New Zealand are also western. Note the grey area of South Korea & Japan.
Secondly I’m assuming you googled “population of Europe” and then falsely counted Russia and Turkey as western. Also there are grey areas of Belarus, Greece, Ukraine and other “European” counties without strong historic western culture.
With that in mind population difference is closer than you think, assuming you wanted to focus on that. Although that’s not the point, getting sidetracked is all too common on this site.
I really cba to do the math on emissions, because I know neither of us has done accurately. If I was getting paid, maybe I would spend a few weeks on it, research properly heavily considering Chinese emissions which are spent making and shipping goods for the west. Paying off our emissions to other counties is a cop out and we all know it.
Im sorry, but Greece doesn’t have a strong history of western culture? I agree with the rest of your post but that is a mad claim to make. There’s a strong argument that “European” culture is essentially a hangover from the Roman empire, which itself essentially copied Greek culture wholesale.
As it happens I’ve been calculating per capita emissions for 28 years, since COP2.
You can see my model here.
No I certainly don’t include Russia nor Turkey, although europe is more than EU. Korea is indeed notable.
Regarding what they call ‘consumption emissions’, you can get such data from Global Carbon Project, on that I’m less an expert but my hunch is that industry emissions are dominated by heavy products like steel and cement for construction (made with help of gigatons of coal), rather than light consumer goods for export. Over-construction is the root of the problem, global emissions will peak (maybe now) as that bubble bursts.
You are right, it’s simple numbers, scientific fact, pity so much downvotes, people should check recent data rather than get stuck with old concepts from 1990s (when climate politics began).
China out-emits the whole West combined. Where the West decreased emissions, China increased.
And?
He’s just bragging.
China #1!!!
Considering a lot of goods the west buys are made or travel via China, that makes sense. We didn’t drop our emissions, we just shifted it to China.
China is making a lot of moves towards efficiency, their train network for example is outstanding and they’ve invested huge sums in renewables. Plus it’s silly comparing effects of different sized populations,
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/19/climate/us-china-climate-issues.html
Yes they invested enormously in high-speed train lines. But look on satellite image around those train stations, new city blocks have massive roads everywhere, 5 lanes in each direction, plus in parallel another set of toll roads. Even if those roads were empty , the cement and steel for all that has contributed enormous quantity of CO2 to the atmosphere.
Chinese emissions per capita are higher than european average for many years now, however they always pick the worst country in the world for comparison statistics.
Now go look at the stats of emission per capita and get back to me.
China doesn’t have the same GDP per capita. A lot of people in China still live the farm life in rural areas.
I have no idea how that’s relevant here
Emissions per capita of China have been higher than the european average for about a decade now.
Whole west != Europe.
Nice try though
lopq’s original comment is correct for ‘whole west’ too. the second part is also true per capita. By the way europe also has a lot more people than united states, it’s not irrelevant.
Firstly, US is not the only country with higher emissions per capita outside of europe. If you wanted to say a truthy but mostly irrelevant statement in this context you succeeded, but remember Canada Australia and New Zealand are also western. Note the grey area of South Korea & Japan.
Secondly I’m assuming you googled “population of Europe” and then falsely counted Russia and Turkey as western. Also there are grey areas of Belarus, Greece, Ukraine and other “European” counties without strong historic western culture.
With that in mind population difference is closer than you think, assuming you wanted to focus on that. Although that’s not the point, getting sidetracked is all too common on this site.
I really cba to do the math on emissions, because I know neither of us has done accurately. If I was getting paid, maybe I would spend a few weeks on it, research properly heavily considering Chinese emissions which are spent making and shipping goods for the west. Paying off our emissions to other counties is a cop out and we all know it.
Im sorry, but Greece doesn’t have a strong history of western culture? I agree with the rest of your post but that is a mad claim to make. There’s a strong argument that “European” culture is essentially a hangover from the Roman empire, which itself essentially copied Greek culture wholesale.
Yeah that’s fair enough good point, I omit Greece from that list, but there are others which are not part of that culture although in Europe
As it happens I’ve been calculating per capita emissions for 28 years, since COP2. You can see my model here.
No I certainly don’t include Russia nor Turkey, although europe is more than EU. Korea is indeed notable. Regarding what they call ‘consumption emissions’, you can get such data from Global Carbon Project, on that I’m less an expert but my hunch is that industry emissions are dominated by heavy products like steel and cement for construction (made with help of gigatons of coal), rather than light consumer goods for export. Over-construction is the root of the problem, global emissions will peak (maybe now) as that bubble bursts.
You are right, it’s simple numbers, scientific fact, pity so much downvotes, people should check recent data rather than get stuck with old concepts from 1990s (when climate politics began).