This seems kind of a weird study as they’re polling the self-selected group that has already chosen to use these bikes anyway. This pretty much excludes all the people that didn’t like using the bikes.
I live in Finland and I love mountain biking but it’s a bitch when there’s snow on the ground so I bought an eFatbike so I could ride year around. And I mean a proper full size one. It does what I intented it to which is keeping me on the trails year around but last winter I thought I’d give bike commuting a chance aswell. My conclusion was that it fucking suuucks. If I had to choose between a bus and a bike then I’d perhaps favour the bike but compared to a car there’s no competition. There’s zero chance I’d replace my car with a bike. I’m more than happy to pay extra for the luxury and freedom it provides. If I lived in a big city then perhaps this would be a different but most of the trips I use my car for I couldn’t reasonably do with a bike.
Another effect I noticed bike commuting to cause is that I no longer had the desire (or battery charge) to go for joyrides after work. It turned an enjoyable hobby into chore.
Yeah this would get me killed. No one and I mean no one rides bikes on the roads I have to drive.
That makes sense. Biking feels more real than driving. Like you’re actually part of a place. I’ve had huge mental benefits from switching to biking and walking for my groceries when I can
I feel like it’s not spoken about enough. There’s something fundamentally weird and off about driving around town in a car. You don’t really see it until you stop using a car for a while and then get back into one … it’s a weird experience … more weird IMO than flying on a passenger jet.
Also the deep frustrations built into the experience. Traffic, stop lights, navigating obstacles, bad drivers, pedestrians etc, while in a car that is relatively big, sometimes too big for its environment and that naturally wants to go much much faster than is often practical or safe. It can really be maddening. We talk about road rage in terms of how crazy some people must be, when in reality it’s obviously the experience of driving that’s like being forced to play an unenjoyable video game … all the time.
In retrospect I think the future will look weirdly on the idea that we all did this all the time and how stressful it must have been to do something that takes up so much of our time and to do something so dangerous everyday.
Yeah exactly. Taking mass transit like trains and planes is mindless and communal and you can pay attention to or ignore what you’re passing. Driving leaves you having to pay a little attention to it, but only a little and you’re in control but not like “I can stop and enjoy the sights or easily duck out for a breather level of in control. And yeah that really gets to the point of it, cars are extremely anti social. You’re left outside the experience of community with them.
And you’re exactly right. It’s low level stress. To do anything or go anywhere and it has a ton of perks but they’re all relative to how many people drive. If society is built around an assumption of cars, bus service is at best decent but inconvenient and restrictive with no sympathy to transit related issues. If you’re one of the few drivers it’s just way faster because the roads let you do it. But for every perk there’s cost and it compounds across all of us until our cities are filled with parking lots and we don’t know our neighbors’ faces
To respond to you and the sibling comment about actually enjoying cars … the low level stress also includes the possibility of becoming high level stress.
Experience driving was brought up, and so it’s worth asking who here has experienced or seen what bad accidents look like. I’ve seen a fair few, some horrific, been a passenger when someone was hit (they were fine fortunately) and myself have accidentally run over my own cat (they survived but their leg was never the same … though in the moment I could only imagine the worst). It builds up over time as you realise how fundamentally dangerous these things are especially once you realise that there are naive pets and children around, or that more than many things in our lives, death is a single mistake away.
I think off driving like having to navigate an obstacle course and if you mess up once you’re financially screwed. driving is such a hassle, and everyone kinda knows it. why do people like to do big ass grocery hauls if it’s supposedly so convenient to drive? because it’s actually a pain in the ass. the only fun driving is rural/road drip driving and that’s a whole other story
Yep yep yep.
I could not relate less to what you just said. I thoroughly enjoy driving. One of the contributin reasons to why I stopped bike commuting was that my truck just sat unused in the carage all day and I missed driving. To me this sound more like that you’re perhaps not very experienced driver and you find it stressful due to how much concentration it requires. This is not the case for me. Just like when riding my mountain bike I don’t really think about how to operate the bike. I don’t even think of me being on the bike but rather the bike just being an extension of me. I get the same feeling when driving a car. Driving a boat on the other hand I do find stressful and I’m quite sure the reason is that I only do it a handful of times a year so I’m not 100% confident in my skills.
Do you thoroughly enjoy sitting in traffic and terrible drivers trying to crash into you? That’s what he’s referring to.
Traffic and bad drivers are part of driving like flat tires, noisy brakes and broken chains are part of cycling. That’s not what I enjoy about it but it’s part of the deal that I’m willing to accept.
I don’t pop 3 tires and break a chain everytime I bike and yet everytime I drive to work I have to sit in traffic and deal with jackasses… I’m curious about how you feel they’re similar.
Have you considered the possibility that not everyone lives in a densely populated urban centre like Toronto? My city has population of 120k people. Traffic is virtually unheard of here.
That makes a lot of sense. I was going initially reply with “do you live in a small city” but didn’t want to make it personal or anything.
To me this sound more like that you’re perhaps not very experienced driver
Nah … driven (and ridden motorbikes) plenty.
It can be plenty of fun on the open road or when doing it with friends and cruising around. But the moment there’s traffic and the density of an actual city … nah, there’s something off about it for me. I only tend to notice it once I stop driving around for a while and then get back in a car. I don’t mind driving, but there’s something there for me.
I like driving when I am not in a rush and not dealing with traffic…so basically never while commuting. I don’t mind driving to a friend’s place, or a long road trip, but bike commuting is superior for me. I don’t need to make weird sweeping assumptions since you said you live in a small city, but commuting traffic is a nightmare on many coastal cities and major metros, so it is probably not a lack of experience so much as you’re commuting in an area unlike most major metros.
I actually work from home now, but I bike commuted for over a decade, including for a couple years a one way ride of 22 miles. No matter how tired I was in the morning or how I didn’t feel like getting on the bike, I’d always feel better once I started going, vs a car which studies have shown saps your energy. Also, there is something magical about biking over a highway and seeing standstill traffic that you’d be in as you toodle along without having to stop.
Plus the calculus I always did was that by turning an irregular 45-75 minute commute into a guaranteed 93 minute commute meant I was spending at most an extra hour and a half to get 3 hours worth of a workout. That frees up so much time for leisure and means you don’t have to workout basically at all.
vs a car which studies have shown saps your energy.
this. it’s a mentally taxing to constantly pay attention to make sure I’m not gonna crash.
If bike was faster I’d probably favour it over a car. That however was not the case for me. My commute is 15 minutes by car and 30 by bike.
That makes sense. Biking feels more real than driving. Like you’re actually part of a place.
You put into words what I’ve been feeling every time I’m on a bike.
My wife asked me to drive her somewhere last night, and I hated it. Sitting felt uncomfortable, being boxed in was unpleasant, having no connection to the real world other than from a metal and glass box sucks. And this was just a short trip across town, had it been in traffic, I would have sent her off in an Uber. LOL
When I ride my bike, even through a small subdivision or quiet downtown streets, I’m able to hear the world around me, smell the wonderful meals being cooked or laundry being dried. And I can feel the ground beneath me and wind on my face as I glide along. Pure joy.
Exactly. And even when I tune out on my bike I am moving an easily comprehensible distance at a comprehensible speed under my own power. And for public transport it feels like a feature of the location “this spot takes you to any of these spots” much like “this spot lets you borrow books for a few weeks”. For cars you have to kinda isolate, tune out, and become traffic.
the fact that you can just stop wherever whenever on a bike is nice, versus having to find a place to park a car, which is a little annoying to frustratingly difficult.
I find it also wakes me up and I feel alert even without caffeine by the time I get to work. Plus apart from when drivers can’t follow a fucking line and drive in the bike lane, which is almost every day, traffic can get fucked on the way home.
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Mostly rain, sometimes snow. Summer is a bit poop but the morning ride in is cool and downhill and being stuck in traffic in my car with broken ac is definitely harder than the breeze when I get moving on the return. The forest trail is nice in the summer too.
It’s a fat ebike though and with huge ass easy drive on the cassette so if I’m totally wrecked I can do the return 90% throttle with a bit of pedalling just at the steepest part. If the summer is abnormally bad I’ll use the lighter bike but usually I just swap between studded winter tires and the silly looking road tires
I love the idea of a cargo bike, but I think that most people would still be better off with a normal bike + a trailer and/or panniers.
Why?
- Much, much more affordable.
- Easier to store.
- Easier to maintain a regular bike.
- More flexibility.
- You can take a regular bike to more places (off road, on a train, into a shop, etc.).
- You can travel with a regular bike or folding bike.
- It’s easier to get around with a regular bike.
But cargo bikes have their uses, especially if you’re hauling kids all the time, or your primary use is to carry cargo. I love seeing people using cargo bikes, I’m not going to lie. 🤗
Cargo bikes are nice…but man they are not affordable for the average Joe.
Electric ones are crazy expensive. Like, “more than a car”, expensive.
If you can still find a non-electric version, and you’ve got the leg strength to move it, they are generally less than < $3000 Canadian. Not terrible, but still way more than a regular bike + extras to add cargo capacity.
The biggest problem I have is that cars are incentivized all the time, especially electric cars. But most places don’t have e-bike or cargo bike incentive rebates at all, and the ones that do are frustratingly bad.
If governments were really serious about reducing car dependency; traffic; pedestrian safety; and getting people to move more, then we should try to make it easier (more affordable) to buy these bikes.
There’s some things that frustrate me about panniers. For instance, let’s say I’m going to visit a friend, and then might do some grocery shopping on the way home. Now I need to bring my panniers, and since they’re valuable alone, I don’t want to leave them on the bike when it’s locked. So I carry them with me to visit my friend, and then have to reattach them coming back. Then, same thing bringing them into the grocery store, or it could turn out I don’t have time that day.
A cargo bike basically seems to keep more options open for a lot of trips, just like the versatility of driving around the city with a 4-person car.
There’s some things that frustrate me about panniers. For instance, let’s say I’m going to visit a friend, and then might do some grocery shopping on the way home. Now I need to bring my panniers, and since they’re valuable alone, I don’t want to leave them on the bike when it’s locked. So I carry them with me to visit my friend, and then have to reattach them coming back. Then, same thing bringing them into the grocery store, or it could turn out I don’t have time that day.
I can certainly appreciate this. There are a few ways around that, depending on your needs.
For example, a front basket (either permanent or detachable) might work in that scenario. A pannier backpack is also another option to consider. More outside the box would be a packable/stuffable backpack, which could fit in your pocket and open to a full size (albeit, thin) backpack. For some basic grocery stuff, it would work.
I like to bring the Arkel Metropolitan if I’m going to be somewhere, and I might need to run some errands afterwards. It’s a stylish bag that doubles as a functional pannier. It can expand if needed, but the size is smaller than a messenger bag if left as-is.
The Burley Travoy is yet another option if you need a trailer, but also need to be able to take it with you off the bike (either folded or as a handcart). This has been one of my favorite bike things over the last two months.
I do plan my bike trips so I know what gear to bring, but I’ve been in situations where I’ve been over (and under) geared, so I do appreciate that these things happen.
A cargo bike basically seems to keep more options open for a lot of trips, just like the versatility of driving around the city with a 4-person car.
Absolutely, but to me, it’s like driving around to visit friends in a large pick-up truck “just in case” you need it to run to the Home Depot for 500lbs of lumber.
If I had a cargo bike, I’d probably only take it around if I knew for certain that I would need the carrying capacity. Pretty much the same as leaving the panniers and bike trailer at home unless I know I’m going to need them.
My middle school science teacher would hunt down whoever made this chart if he saw it ಠ_ಠ
You can tell your teacher that I’ll help.
I got a fixed gear bike last year and a trailer to pull my kids around in (when they want to go with me).
I pretty much exclusively use that to get around and get groceries instead of my car now.
Even in the rain, it’s just so much more fun to be on a bicycle than to drive.
fixed gear bike last year and a trailer to pull my kids around
Please explain! I’ve been looking at single speed bikes, but I keep hearing “it’s too hard” and “you’ll never be able to carry weight with it!”.
I’ll admit that I ride with a cargo trailer (groceries), and I do have to use gears or it would be impossible to climb some of the hills we get.
Where I live is mostly flat and am running 46x16. Hills really wouldn’t scare me too much (I still have brakes)
The biggest limiting factor I have found in towing is that there is a point where the trailer will unload my front wheel and then my steering becomes more of a suggestion (about 100+ lbs… I am routinely exceeding the suggested limits)
Here is an article about ratios. It’s really about finding the least worst setup for your needs; easier hill climbs means more spinning when going down hills and lower top speed.
The biggest limiting factor I have found in towing is that there is a point where the trailer will unload my front wheel and then my steering becomes more of a suggestion (about 100+ lbs… I am routinely exceeding the suggested limits)
I read somewhere that the safe cargo limit for a bike trailer is approx. half the weight of the rider + bike.
So, if you weigh 160lbs, and your bike is 30lbs, the max recommended weight of the trailer and cargo should not exceed 95lbs.
I’ve hauled over 115lbs with my bike (loaded panniers + trailer), but never exceed 65lbs in the trailer due to size/volume limits of the trailer itself.
But I do find that heavy weight causes the trailer to “push” the bike in ways that feel unsettling. 100+ lbs would make me uneasy! It’s amazing that you’re doing it! Kudos!
Thanks for that! I didn’t know the math to work that out!
The pushing is not as scary because I don’t exceed 10mph when that heavy of a trailer and because I can resist that pushing quite a bit with the pedals… which is a great feeling.
I use a trailer pram to ride my twin boys around. We ride to the shops, swimming lessons, parks, and the nearest shopping centre together. They absolutely love it.
We also get the best parking spots wherever we go and avoid traffic, which is more pleasant even if the ride takes longer.
I splurged on an electric bike ($2k) instead of investing in upgrading my vehicle. I haven’t sold my vehicle yet, but now I prefer to bike to the store than drive. The way our town is laid out, you have to drive around a few other businesses and through two busy traffic light sections to get to the supermarket, but on foot or bike you can just cut down the back of a strip mall and halve the distance. Now, I get exercise on grocery runs, I am limited in space so I don’t impulse buy, I don’t have to pay for gas, I don’t have to sit in traffic, I have less chance of getting into an accident, AND it’s just as quick as going by car. My only complaint is the lack of bike parking in the parking lot, so I have to chain it up to a fence round back.
Why oh why are city planners so far behind on developing the right infrastructure. Still attached to suburbs? No problem! We could keep the suburbs with small grocery stores spread around all connected through secured bike lanes that take you everywhere. God, ho fukin awesome would that be…
I don’t even have a cargo bike and I’m hooked. Unfortunately, most drivers in my city wants to run over bikers.
Main problem I see is having the space for secure storage if you have a fairly small house or flat
Amen, I live in a small one bedroom flat and we have 3 bikes. We have a tiny outdoor space where I can keep my main commuter for easy access but the other 2 are in the house and I have parts stashed all over. Add in a healthy collection of skateboards / long boards and my house is starting to look like a garage and my gf hates it but there is fuck all we can do about it! Can barely afford this rent let alone finding a bigger house of some kind.
Still smaller than a car.
… which can be left securely in the street
This is something else that future generation will look weirdly at. The idea that you can just leave you car to occupy public space.
Most of the public space is taken up by car, it’s insane when you think about it.
Which is why my local authority (reasonable enough) charges me for parking in my street. They also have secured cycle hangers for residents to rent. Not many spaces for cargo bikes available, unfortunately
Can I get one of these, but electric? I’ll take two if they look way cooler.
Most modern cargo bikes are electric. It is actually kinda hard to find a non electric cago bike nowadays.
The bike from the article looks like a Tern
Can I get one of these, but electric? I’ll take two if they look way cooler.
I think the bike in the article is electric I thought it looked like this, but it could be another manufacturer’s design
Aww ya bby. Now add some cargo buckets 🪣
Edit:
they have dem buckets!
I like bucket bikes. Check out the Yuba super cargo.
I have an Aventon abound, and I use it for most of my <10 mile trips. I like it a lot, but I wish it was mid-drive, and my next cargo bike will be mid for sure.
belt + mid drive = chef’s kiss
Upgraded to a newer camry a few years ago when I got my first “real” job - bought a commuter bike with panier bags soon after and use it exclusively in town. I LOVE my bike. Would sell the car if it were possible to out of town with public transportation where I live.
Anyway, you can carry a lot without a cargo bike - especially if you have no kids and thereby have small grocery hauls
So it works in Germany, one of the best countries in the world when it comes to bikes. How about other countries?
Hmmm, I mean, a couple of holes in the cart really means your argument…doesn’t hold water
Imagining riding around with the sidecars full of water. (shudder)
https://www.tripsavvy.com/weather-in-portland-oregon-2743084
“Among U.S. cities, Portland ranks third with 164 rainy days annually.”
I think a couple of holes in the cart means… Your argument really doesn’t hold water
Or a cover…
I’ve put holes in my cover, it didn’t help.
You’ve only gone and done it.
… you really can’t think of a solution to that very predictable and common problem? A top on the buckets? Holes in the bottom?
This is why shampoo needs instructions.
They aren’t paying me to fix their bad design.
The only thing bad here is your assumptions
Assuming open top containers are going to collect water in the rain? 🤔
There’s no way those things don’t drain and you can 100% ride in the rain, just saying.
