One example would be the gender identities of Adira and Grey. Instead of just presenting it as a background detail and totally natural thing that there are NB/Trans characters on the crew (as it definitely should be in a modern Star Trek setting imo), there is a huge spotlight on their gender identities in the main plot and there is even a 2020 style pronoun talk, which feels extremely unfitting for a scenario so far in the future, when there should not be a need to discuss such things.
Then there is the presentation of Stamets and Culber, which is often more focused on their gay relationship than on their professional work as crew members, which similarly to how Adira and Gray are presented, feels like cheap queer baiting.
Maybe you could refresh my memory with an episode or some more details because I don’t remember it that way. I remember Adira stating their pronouns, everyone accepting that and using those pronouns and never mentioning it again. I’m pretty damn sure there wasn’t some Jordan Peterson type that refused to get with the program.
I’m also pretty sure there wasn’t any focus on Stamets’ and Culber’s “gay” relationship. Their relationship was part of several story elements but the gay aspect was not. Please remind me of any plots involving their relationship that would have to be changed if one of them was a woman.
You are the one making a big deal about these characters because you can’t get over their simple existence.
Also, I think it’s worth pointing out that Adira was from Earth, which at that point had left the Federation, and had become seemingly a much more paranoid place. So that Adira was uncomfortable and worried about what folks might think of them seems reasonable, since they weren’t used to living in the Federation, where being nonbinary isn’t something anyone should be worried about sharing with others.
You intentionally don´t understand the most simple arguments and just keep asking me to put in more argumentative work while all you do is dismissing my points independently of their validity. I am tired of talking to you and consider you a troll, who I will ignore from now on.
I am not going to rewatch the worst NuTrek show just so I can tell you what exact episodes that were. If you want to know, rewatch that crap yourself. Also, blocked for trolling.
I’m confused how you got to this conclusion because in my opinion, Discovery is pretty much a masterclass in treating their queer characters as normal. Stamets and Culber’s relationship is core to a lot of episodes, but the fact that they are gay is not—I can only think of a single time the word “gay” is even said. They’re full characters in their own right that just happen to be in a relationship. Queerbaiting would be if they hinted at a queer relationship but didn’t show it, but they show it plenty. They aren’t perfect either, they literally almost break up. They’re whole people.
And Adira and Grey… Adira has to come out, yes. I don’t know what’s wrong with that. You seem to think it should just be a “normal thing” that isn’t discussed, but coming out is an inevitable part of the non-binary experience. People in Star Trek aren’t mind readers, and seem to still assume binary pronouns by default. So it’s only natural that if someone wants other people to use they/them pronouns for them, they have to come out, even in the future. I think the fact that Adira was able to come out in a single brief scene and then it’s never mentioned again is great and not unnatural at all.
And Grey’s transition is alluded to as something that happened in the past, but is literally never directly mentioned in the plot. I don’t think the word “transgender” is ever uttered. He seems like the perfect trans character for you, his transness has nothing to do with who he is and is never directly mentioned but he’s just accepted for who he is. What’s wrong with his portrayal?
Its funny too because being a trill recipient makes the allegory very “conservative friendly” . They literally gained dozens of lifetimes worth of memories where their gender and birth sex were male and female. Normal trill symbiote candidates go through training in order to better retain their sense of self after they bond and better separate the memories. Adira did not have that training and was not ready for this or even the right species for it.
Riker absolutely lost himself while he had a trill implant and became the trill. Meanwhile Adira has a few hundred or more thousand years of being a mother, being a father, giving birth, and presenting as male and female and over that kind of time span even seeing gender roles and norms change and evolve. After all that they decide you know what I dont think Im quite a girl anymore but Im not a boy. Even a gender absolutist would have to give it to them.
Straight cis presenting people are the default. The fact that you dont bitch and complain every time that is shown and only when any other manifestation of gender or sexuality is, is damning. Ultimately youd rather these people be sidelined so that you and all of the other people that they make uncomfortable by just existing can pretend they dont.
it would help your case if you could give a few examples of this happening
One example would be the gender identities of Adira and Grey. Instead of just presenting it as a background detail and totally natural thing that there are NB/Trans characters on the crew (as it definitely should be in a modern Star Trek setting imo), there is a huge spotlight on their gender identities in the main plot and there is even a 2020 style pronoun talk, which feels extremely unfitting for a scenario so far in the future, when there should not be a need to discuss such things.
Then there is the presentation of Stamets and Culber, which is often more focused on their gay relationship than on their professional work as crew members, which similarly to how Adira and Gray are presented, feels like cheap queer baiting.
Maybe you could refresh my memory with an episode or some more details because I don’t remember it that way. I remember Adira stating their pronouns, everyone accepting that and using those pronouns and never mentioning it again. I’m pretty damn sure there wasn’t some Jordan Peterson type that refused to get with the program.
I’m also pretty sure there wasn’t any focus on Stamets’ and Culber’s “gay” relationship. Their relationship was part of several story elements but the gay aspect was not. Please remind me of any plots involving their relationship that would have to be changed if one of them was a woman.
You are the one making a big deal about these characters because you can’t get over their simple existence.
And that was the end of it. Horrific, isn’t it? I’m sure Nacktmull would have blocked the characters for trolling if they could.
Also, I think it’s worth pointing out that Adira was from Earth, which at that point had left the Federation, and had become seemingly a much more paranoid place. So that Adira was uncomfortable and worried about what folks might think of them seems reasonable, since they weren’t used to living in the Federation, where being nonbinary isn’t something anyone should be worried about sharing with others.
You intentionally don´t understand the most simple arguments and just keep asking me to put in more argumentative work while all you do is dismissing my points independently of their validity. I am tired of talking to you and consider you a troll, who I will ignore from now on.
No, I’m asking for an example. Just one.
I’m not asking for any more arguments. I understand your position completely.
I just gave two examples, stop the trolling or get blocked …
No, you made a claim. A claim that, so far, is unsupported.
I’m simply asking for one scene, outside of your own mind, where these things actually happened.
I only watched it once. I could be wrong. Please refresh my memory.
It´s not unsupported since I gave two examples. Stop trolling.
Saying something happened is not an example.
Which episode has “a 2020 style pronoun talk?”
Which episode has a plot involving Stamets and Culber that wouldn’t be essentially unchanged if it was a heterosexual relationship?
I will go rewatch them now and come back and apologize if these things actually exist.
Troll
which episodes main plot is about gender identity i cant find it
I am not going to rewatch the worst NuTrek show just so I can tell you what exact episodes that were. If you want to know, rewatch that crap yourself. Also, blocked for trolling.
Dawg, if you block everyone for “trolling” (ie, disagreeing with you), it’s gonna get real lonely on here for you
Conservstives were the snowflakes all along. Who knew?
I’m confused how you got to this conclusion because in my opinion, Discovery is pretty much a masterclass in treating their queer characters as normal. Stamets and Culber’s relationship is core to a lot of episodes, but the fact that they are gay is not—I can only think of a single time the word “gay” is even said. They’re full characters in their own right that just happen to be in a relationship. Queerbaiting would be if they hinted at a queer relationship but didn’t show it, but they show it plenty. They aren’t perfect either, they literally almost break up. They’re whole people.
And Adira and Grey… Adira has to come out, yes. I don’t know what’s wrong with that. You seem to think it should just be a “normal thing” that isn’t discussed, but coming out is an inevitable part of the non-binary experience. People in Star Trek aren’t mind readers, and seem to still assume binary pronouns by default. So it’s only natural that if someone wants other people to use they/them pronouns for them, they have to come out, even in the future. I think the fact that Adira was able to come out in a single brief scene and then it’s never mentioned again is great and not unnatural at all.
And Grey’s transition is alluded to as something that happened in the past, but is literally never directly mentioned in the plot. I don’t think the word “transgender” is ever uttered. He seems like the perfect trans character for you, his transness has nothing to do with who he is and is never directly mentioned but he’s just accepted for who he is. What’s wrong with his portrayal?
Its funny too because being a trill recipient makes the allegory very “conservative friendly” . They literally gained dozens of lifetimes worth of memories where their gender and birth sex were male and female. Normal trill symbiote candidates go through training in order to better retain their sense of self after they bond and better separate the memories. Adira did not have that training and was not ready for this or even the right species for it.
Riker absolutely lost himself while he had a trill implant and became the trill. Meanwhile Adira has a few hundred or more thousand years of being a mother, being a father, giving birth, and presenting as male and female and over that kind of time span even seeing gender roles and norms change and evolve. After all that they decide you know what I dont think Im quite a girl anymore but Im not a boy. Even a gender absolutist would have to give it to them.
Straight cis presenting people are the default. The fact that you dont bitch and complain every time that is shown and only when any other manifestation of gender or sexuality is, is damning. Ultimately youd rather these people be sidelined so that you and all of the other people that they make uncomfortable by just existing can pretend they dont.