Without a Palestinian state and a multi-national presence to enforce it there will never be peace. The motive for attacks will remain.
A Palestinian state wouldn’t fix it either, considering that Hamas and similar groups in the area very explicitly want ALL the territory and want Israel to not exist at all.
Great, then it’s solved. The only solution is genocide. Doesn’t matter which side, just pick one, and kill them all.
That is what you’re saying, right?
There is no good solution to the current state of things.
Good is relative. What you mean is that there isn’t a perfect solution. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
So if your argument is that a two state solution isn’t perfect, therefore we shouldn’t do it, then that’s tacit approval for my first solution…a final solution if you will. Just pick a side, and poof.
If you’re not comfortable with genocide, then a two state solution is the only viable path forward with any hope of chance of being made into a good outcome, even if not a perfect one.
So pick one: a final solution or a two-state solution, but stop with the wishy-washy “the status quo must remain until a perfect solution is found”.
Don’t get me wrong I’d love a two state solution or really any solution where they stop killing each other. But in order for a two state solution to happen, you need both sides to agree on the borders, and good luck with that.
Just remind the Israeli government who holds the biggest stick and which hand feeds them.
Reminder that the UN has tried to implement the two state solution before but the Arab side said “No we want all of it”
You’re down voted for truth.
Many Palestinians would probably be happy for recognition of state I imagine but Hamas very likely would not. It’s currently a convenient excuse for them but if it happened I highly doubt they would stop trying to lob missiles over the border and be a peaceful neighbour, even if Israel stopped trying to steal land.
Not saying it shouldn’t happen but it’s not some magical solution like many seem to think.
Imagine how much better the world would be if Jews migrated to the US instead of directly in the middle of people who hate them the most.
Zionism is a plague that is responsible for untold damage.
I mean that kind of happened already. There’s a reason why the United States has the second highest Jewish population in the world, less only than Israel and not by much. Rampant anti semitisim in Europe among other reasons drove many to emigrate to the US. Between 1880 and 1914 alone, 2 million Ashkenazi Jewish people immigrated to the United States to escape ethnic cleansing pogroms in Eastern Europe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
People in Palestine actually welcome them, and it is not Jew it is the Zainoist movement that were supported ( not sure who exactly gave them guns ) and started two organizations that committed multiple massacres before forming Israel.
People in Palestine actually welcome them
Hhmmmmmmmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
These were already after Zionists were already moving to the land in droves and trying to set up the Israeli state. That’s like saying the Native Americans were violent anti-Americans for attacking settler colonies during the Wild West. The process of displacement and settler colonialism was already way underway by that time and seen in real time by the local. Rather than give them their own state as promised after WWI, Britain instead not only kept Palestine, but used it so all the antisemitic European countries had somewhere to put their Jews. Revisionist Zionists happily accepted this arrangement and once they had the numbers, started setting up terrorist and paramilitary groups and prepping for their future state.
But Jewish immigration has been happening for awhile before the violence had started, and during that time, relations between the groups were almost entirely peaceful and accepting. Keep in mind that migrations were happening in the 1800’s and even earlier, way before your Wikipedia time line starts.
Btw, some of these Zionist groups tried to coordinate with the Nazis, too. And they’ve never reconciled with that. One of them became prime minister, and Netanyahu has a figure of the founder of Lehi behind his desk, too.
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Ethnostages are inherently bad. You cannot have a state for a single ethnicity or religion and not have it descend into apartheid or worse. Zionism is inherently bad.
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The belief that any group of people are entitled to live anywhere because of their religion (religious nationalism) is bad.
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Sure, but I don’t think they should get to pick and choose where they get to be.
Zionists disagree, and this is the result of appeasing them.
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No, I didn’t suggest that and don’t pretend that I did.
How about a compromise? There is plenty of room in the US for them.
The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews who fled to Israel after almost all of them, some 850,000 in total, were expelled or pressured out of Muslim-majority Middle Eastern countries from 1948 through the 1950s. About 72% (650,000) settled in Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
The notion that Jewish Israelis are just Europeans is a profoundly racist and ignorant belief.
A couple notes:
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Mizrahi is a modern term used to erase the European origin of many Jewish communities living in the former Ottoman empire.
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This argument is often used by Zionists to suggest that the majority of the modern Israeli population is made up of indigenous groups. This is not correct.
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Even if that’s true they certainly jumped on the settler colonialism bandwagon from Europe quick enough.
instead of directly in the middle of people who hate them the most.
It’s not even that. Zionists caused the Middle East to hate Jews.
Blaming Jews for the antisemitism they experience is antisemitism 101, buddy.
The only thing you’re actually saying here is that you’re not familiar with the history of the Middle East prior to about 1948.
Yeah, nah. Their neighbors declared war on Israel the literal moment Israel was founded. They hadn’t even had time to piss anyone off.
Because the very creation of Israel was a settler colonialist state ethnically cleansing the local population.
I would say their neighbours had plenty to be pissed off about.
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Yes? Especially if the territory of that state is forcibly taken away from others who are living on it
Creating the United States was similarly terrible as it involved the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Native Americans. Same with Australia. Same with South Africa. Same with Rhodesia.
Forcibly taking someone’s home and cleansing an area of an ethnicity is certainly regarded as one of the worst actions a group of people can do. And rightly so
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A lot of countries have a right of return. It works just fine. They may not be able to get the family farm back, but we can’t win everything.
Ah yes, the United States; famously a leading example of tolerance and acceptance for everyone. /s
? Look at how we accommodate Mormons.
Mormonism (as I’m sure you already know) started in America during the 1820s.
Commenter above you doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The reason why the United States has such a large Jewish population is they were escaping ethnic cleansing and anti semitisim in Europe. Not saying the United States is perfect by any means and no anti semitisim exists there, but yes increased tolerance is a principal reason why they were emigrating to the US.
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It’s not as though I implied the US wants to send their Jewish population to concentration camps or something.
All I meant was that America is not the bastion of tolerance that their comment would suggest it is. I think that’s pretty obvious to anyone who reads the news.
It’s just a bit of a weird time to criticize the United States tolerance of Jewish people in a thread about “why didn’t they all move to America?” when in actuality millions of them did for exactly that reason. The improved tolerance in the United States in comparison to Europe throughout the 19th and 20th centuries is why they now have the largest Jewish population in the world second only to Israel. Not that the United States is perfect or shouldn’t keep working on improving tolerance of others by any means.
I don’t know enough about the subject to speculate about what an average American thought of Jewish immigrants - or any other immigrant population - during those centuries. I’m also neither American nor Jewish, so I can’t speak personally about what the day-to-day reality of that relationship is today.
What the modern news and history have to say about America’s tolerance level though… that is up for debate, and they tell a more complex story. While we’re considering dates, a relevant example may be that the United States only abolished slavery in the 1860s. I’ll grant you that speaks to the persecution of a different population, but I doubt the bigots who fought to preserve that ‘right’ during the American Civil War were choosy.
Please don’t misunderstand me; I don’t doubt that many Jewish people that emigrated to the United States have had better lives than they otherwise would have. I’m also not implying that the average American today is hateful or bigoted. I just don’t agree with the notion that the world would inherently be a better place if every Jewish person impacted by diaspora ended up in the United States specifically.
Oh absolutely, I did not mean to imply I agreed with that original poster that all Jewish people should have been forcibly emigrated to the United States or whatever bad take that was. I just thought it was bizarre they were saying “why didn’t this happen?” about Jewish people leaving for America when it literally did happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
We didn’t for a good while…
It’s kinda unusual for Saudi Arabia to stick up for Palestinians, isn’t it? Am I wrong about that?
ETA: After a little reading, it seems that I am wrong about that but “it’s complicated.”
SA has been working on a two-state solution for a while now, that was what Kushner was supposed to be working on during the Trump administration when he wound up getting a loan of $5 billion from the Saudis, however Qatar is the country where HAMAS leadership are hiding out.
Yeah, just today I remembered that Kushner has already “solved” this problem when I read an interview about the future of this conflict depending on the future US president. The interviewee said Trump hates Netanyahu because he congratulated Biden when he won the 2020 election, so the US would probably not pressure Israel to resolve the conflict, but also not help Israel out.
Good.
Israel has an excellent opportunity to make peace and be the economic engine of growth for the region. But the mullahs in Iran, Hamas, and present day Likud are all made for each other
Yup. Israel desperately needs to hold new elections. If necessary, Gantz should threaten to collapse the coalition government if that’s what it takes. Israel needs sensible leaders like Benny Gantz, Gadi Eisenkot, Yair Lapid, and Gallant who actually understand that while it’s necessary to exterminate Hamas, the only way of ensuring long-term peace and stability in the region is to reach a political solution with a pathway towards Palestinian self-rule.
My understanding is that there are some interesting demographic effects at play in Israel - their percentage of heavily religious population has been increasing and is therefore getting more and more political control.
The ultra-orthadox (I think this is the term) Jews are also exempt from military service I believe.
This is/could lead to increased internal instability in the coming years/decades.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The dispute over Gaza’s future — as the war rages with no end in sight — pits Israel against its top ally, the United States, as well as much of the international community, and poses a major obstacle to any plans for postwar governance or reconstruction of the impoverished coastal enclave that is home to 2.3 million Palestinians.
In the interview with “CNN’s Fareed Zakaria GPS,” the host asked: “Are you saying unequivocally that if there is not a credible and irreversible path to a Palestinian state, there will not be normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel?”
Earlier in the interview, when asked if oil-rich Saudi Arabia would finance reconstruction in Gaza — where Israel’s offensive has caused unprecedented destruction — Prince Faisal gave a similar answer.
At a meeting about the war on Monday, European Union foreign ministers said the creation of a Palestinian state was the only way to achieve peace and expressed concern about Netanyahu’s rejection of the idea.
Relatives of the hostages, as well as other protesters, have set up a tent camp outside Netanyahu’s residence in Jerusalem and vowed to remain until a deal is reached to bring the rest of the captives home.
But Netanyahu’s governing coalition is beholden to far-right parties that want to step up the offensive, encourage the “voluntary” emigration of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from Gaza, and re-establish Jewish settlements there.
The original article contains 1,023 words, the summary contains 234 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Who cares? Saudis are a fundamentalist theocracy built on oil money
Israel doesn’t give a shit. They were only interested in normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia to keep them away and deal with them later. Now that they’ve ripped their masks off and kicked the ethnic cleansing process into high gear, there’s no point in normalizing relations. If Saudi Arabia has a problem with it, they’ll be “regime changed”. We’ve hit a point of no return.
Yeah but fuck the Saudis.
Yeah, it’s terrible that they’re the ones on the right side of history on this. It shows how low the US is willing to go to protect its ME interests. Literally morally lower than Saudi.
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Entity does smart thing
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“Omg, they’re just like me!”
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