this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2024
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Pixel Dungeon

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A brief evolution of Rogue. Thousands of sites exist on the topic, so I won't go into a lot of repeat here, but I thought you might enjoy a quick gaming history lesson.

Tolkein (Lord of the Rings and many other books), inspired the game Moria. Zeb, Cook, and Gygax, creators of Dungeons & Dragons, inspired the game Rogue. Tolkein, from Europe, and Gygax (mainly credited for D&D), from America, detested one another.

Shattered Pixel Dungeon is based upon Pixel Dungeon. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.shatteredpixel.shatteredpixeldungeon

Pixel Dungeon is based upon BRogue.

https://pixel-dungeon.en.uptodown.com/android

BRogue is based on Angband. https://github.com/bilgincoskun/brogue-android-port/releases/

Angband is based on Moria and Larn and Nethack. Moria is Tolkein's world, Nethack is D&D'ish, and Larn took a whole different theme. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.rephial.xyangband

This version includes several Roguelikes in one, including Sil-Q, the Android port of Moria.

The Android port of Larn (dLarn) is available at - https://download.appsonwindows.com/b/dLarn_free-v3.3-appsonwindows.com.apk?a=azJIZDl2QyttREIxend4L0tyblQwdz09&b=ZmlJL1paUmowSkdDY25XVy9SbGRlTDdreDhhWFc5WWk5NWJORXNrSWN5L1hOamFkWUZsZ21UVVVhSDlwWWtPa2hiT0VIZmQrQ2drTHZoSXJlZ3p4cjNnVlhvWDFSNnNocU1qM0xwcEVKcFk9&c=VkZzUkZ5QjlwQmxrOFJmSWNqR1EvZ3A5MDlSN3I3ZHk4WDFTZ1ZEVnFmQT0&d=4bf63e00

Moria is based on Rogue. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.rufe.moria

"Roguelike Classic" is the only APK I know to include direct ports of Moria, Larn, and Rogue to Android. Sadly, it uses .SO libraries that are no longer supported since Android 11. Mines of Moria does not hold very true to the original Dungeons of Moria. uMoria is not available for Android. Finally, I found Sil. This is an Android port of Moria that holds very true to Tolkein's work, but it is for x86 hardware only. Fortunately, Sil was redone as Sil-Q (silk), and is included in the above Angband apk.

The original UNIX version of Rogue (1978-1980) will not run on modern devices, and the only 2 known Android ports of the 1984-1985 DOS version stopped working at Android 11. The DOS version can be run in an emulator such as MagicDOSBox on Android. The versions up to 1984 were primarily text based, or, if one had a computer powerful enough they could select an ANSI or ASCII sudo graphics mode. It can also be played online. One must register an account before playing. https://rlgallery.org:8080/

A modern Android port can be found in Dungeon Crawl. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crawlmb&hl=en

In 2015, one of the largest roundups of Roguelikes took place and more than 700 versions were archived. https://archive.org/details/RoguelikeMegaCollection2015

The anual 7 Day Roguelike Challenge adds about 10 new games each year.

About the same time, Pixel Dungeon was bursting onto the scene for Android and not even mentioned in that archive at the time.

A decade later, and there is now well over 300 version's of Pixel Dungeon! That makes for over a thousand roguelikes.

Dial-up Multi User Dungeon's (MUD's), network roguelikes such as Diablo, and MMORPG's such as World of Warcraft are also evolution's of the original Rogue.

*Edit

Although Nethack wasn't a part of PD, it has been a major influence on all Roguelikes. As I mentioned it, I am posting the Android version.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tbd.NetHack

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[–] Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Very interesting, thank you!

[–] Raxtuss1@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I didnt get anythig after 2nd paragraph... But seems cool

[–] The_Snail@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Do you mean that it didn't load, or that you didn't understand?

[–] grabyourmotherskeys@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

I think they got lost in the history and detail.

I wanted to thank you for this tour of rogue games. :)

[–] antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Super interesting. Is it possible to tell how much code has been inherited from one game to another? Or do they start from scratch too frequently?

[–] The_Snail@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Most of the source codes are released on Github. Through Github one can look at the Commits and compare code between version's. I don't know that anyone has ever done a percentage comparison report. That would be interesting, though very time consuming.

Also, comparing the APK's won't do. The Smali code (compiled JAVA) is bundled into DEX files, and that code is archived into zip files. To compare code differences that way, one must unpack and decompile every APK and perform a CRC/MD5/etc type comparison of every file, requiring about 15Gb of storage. A simple change in the use of AAP vs AAP2 compression can result in code changes wherein 100% of the code might look different when it is the exact same code. This tripple (or more) packing process for APK's makes CRC/MD5/etc. comparison nearly impossible to get accurate results.

I know as I did a similar method to create my PD database.

https://lemmy.world/post/10401791

Too, several hundred Github repositories are nothing more than clones of the original with names changed and nothing else.

Years ago there was a DOS tool to do comparison of BIN files for the Atari 2600 roms. It decompiled and examined code changes between thousands of roms and produced a family tree output. However, those files are 4K and not compressed. I will look around and see if a modern tool might be able to do the same for Android files, however, I think the Github data is goint to be the easier route.

[–] Kiernian@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Tolkein, from Europe, and Gygax ... from America, detested one another

Uhh. Where'd that idea come from? I read somewhere that Gygax thoroughly enjoyed The Hobbit, although he apparently thought some of Tolkien's writing was "boring". I don't recall ever hearing Tolkien saying anything at all about Gygax. Gary didn't even get started on the precursors to D&D until right before Tolkien's death.

[–] The_Snail@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Dragon magazine reported on several occassions wherein the two met and banged heads. Although fans rarely saw them argue, it happened.

Dragon articles -

For example, he says:

I found the "Ring Trilogy" . . . well, tedious. The action dragged, and it smacked of an allegory of the struggle of the little common working folk of England against the threat of Hitler's Nazi evil. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Professor's dedicated readers, I must say that I was so bored with his tomes that I took nearly three weeks to finish them.

And then later on:

Gandalf is quite ineffectual, plying a sword at times and casting spells which are quite low-powered (in terms of the D&D game). Obviously, neither he nor his magic had any influence on the games. The wicked Sauron is poorly developed, virtually depersonalized, and at the end blows away in a cloud of evil smoke . . . poof! Nothing usable there.

In addition, several civil action suits were filed between the two, the most notable when Tolkein sued TSR over copyright infringement.

"During the first few years after the introduction of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) in 1973, Gary Gygax, who had the strongest impact on the fantasy elements of the game, denied any direct influences from fantasy author J.R.R. Tolkien. Many players recognized immediately that numerous D&D character and creature names came directly from the books. But it took until 1977 for intellectual property lawyers from a firm which had licensed the rights to Tolkien’s work to send a cease-and-desist order, at which point TSR Inc. (then known as Tactical Studies Rules) Gygax’s publishing house, famously changed the names of characters with ties to those works. Thus, in basic D&D “hobbit” became “halfling,” and “ent” became “treant.”"

Beyond the press, media, and courts, we, the members of Evermoore Knight's (a group of people who gamed and playtested with Gygax), and I, who did work for TSR, Paladium, G.U.R.P.S. and other gaming systems, knew at a personal level the arguements that took place. Although to the fans the two systems, LotR and D&D, bare a strong resemblance, what inspired them and the creator's behind them were polar opposites.

(Of course, all that paled in comparison to how much Gygax's wife would come to want him dead, his lifes work destroyed, and D&D burried forever. She nearly succeeded too, creating Wizard's of the Coast and turning D&D and many other board games into indiscernible D20 garbage, wherein if not for a title one can't tell the difference from D&D, Shadowrun, etc. But that is a whole other matter and unrelated to Pixel Dungeon.)

[–] Kiernian@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

in 1973, Gary Gygax, who had the strongest impact on the fantasy elements of the game, denied any direct influences from fantasy author J.R.R. Tolkien.

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien Died 2 September 1973 (aged 81) Bournemouth, Hampshire, England

Dragon magazine reported on several occassions wherein the two met and banged heads. Although fans rarely saw them argue, it happened.

There's REALLY not a lot of overlap for that to have happened, to say nothing of the distance between Hampshire and Wisconsin.

Also, what is this?

She nearly succeeded too, creating Wizard’s of the Coast

Unless Mary Jo Powell or Gail Carpenter were Peter Adkinson in disguise, that statement seems pretty far off base.

Where are you getting this stuff?

[–] The_Snail@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

You are correct in that face-to-face meetings between Tolkein and Gygax were limited. As the articles themself point out, the arguements and lawsuits went well past their meetings and even past their lives.


"Lorraine Dille Williams is an American businesswoman. She was hired as manager of TSR, Inc. by company co-founder Gary Gygax in 1984, and was in charge of the table game company from 1986 to 1997. Williams gained control of TSR in October 1985 when the Blume brothers sold her their controlling shares of the company. It is estimated that as early as 1994, she (and several others) plotted with card game designer, Wizard's of the Coast, to overthrow TSR. In 1996, an "unexpectedly" high cost of returned (unsold) fiction books and an expensive, unsuccessful foray into the collectible card game market caused a cash flow squeeze, and Williams sold TSR to Wizards of the Coast in 1997."

Plenty of news articles have been published on this. Not so widely known is how Gail, Gary's second wife, a materialistic gold digger, was the driving force behind the great killing of board games, and worked with Williams and publicist Rose Estes and Peter Adkinson to take control over all of Gary's assets and run D&D into the ground, replacing it with card games.

Ernie, Gary's son, has given plenty of interviews about how Tolkein and TSR fought, and in company name, continue to fight one another to this day. Too, Luke, another of Gary's sons, has also reported on how his steo-mother sold D&D to WotC for $30M (not the publically reported $11M) and converted most of it into WotC shares, making Gail the largest share holder of the company and saving it from failure. In 2015, Gail actually sued Gary's son's over them attempting to keep D&D going in its classic form. Unlike Gary's first wife who support him, Gail just wanted money. Ironically, Gail's hatrid of D&D and her subversive share control of WotC to destroy tabletop gaming backfired as millions of fans worldwide attacked her, Tom DeSanto sued her, and some have even tried to kill her. WotC bought out her shares and although many of the lawsuits were dropped, they left Gail nearly penniless.

Gail Gygax and WotC are world wide atributed with the intentional destruction of D&D (the original format) and many table top games.

A great many backstabbing deals took place that the general public doesn't know about, and most never will.

This however, is getting far off the topic of Pixel Dungeon.

[–] NOOBMASTER@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So, is Pixel dungeon still being developed? Or does it have the same developer as Shattered Pixel Dungeon?

[–] The_Snail@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Watabou stopped developement at v1.9.2a. Others have made their own expansions/modifications since he made the code open source. Out of that about a hundred PD's came out, and from those, Shattered and Remixed have (arguably) become the two most developed and used worldwide.

PD, SPD, most (though not all) PD's have seperate developers.