• 520@kbin.social
      771·
      11 months ago

      The internet. It’s a fucked up place. Nothing like what the big players on the internet would have you believe.

      So long as there exists a way for people to not get prosecuted, these things will exist.

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
        731·
        11 months ago

        Realistically, the more accessible the internet becomes the more it reflects the behavior of humanity at large.

        These things exist because they’re part of us. The internet probably makes them more visible, but I doubt it makes them more extant.

  • Pohl@lemmy.worldEnglish
    146·
    11 months ago

    This is a real rogues gallery of internet. And… a soccer team from Detroit. What the fuck did those guys do?

      • deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        1031·
        11 months ago

        Best sport in the world. Football is more than just FIFA etc, you know? Getting children to play and have fun is good. Me and my friends playing football is also good. But yeah, just boil everything down to how corps fuck things up.

      • 🗑️😸@lemm.eeEnglish
        34·
        11 months ago

        Yeah, I did the same. I was thinking, “cool, an instance close to home… Oh God… no… No no no”

      • Pohl@lemmy.worldEnglish
        211·
        11 months ago

        Oh my, I live in MI and I always thought the DC fans were sort of wholesome. People taking pride in their city and building traditions. I’m not going to find out what you saw there but it bums me out.

    • bmsok@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      11 months ago

      I’ll always have mad respect for Hockeytown/Motown/De-troit Motor City. Fuck around with them and you’ll get politefully wrecked.

  • key@lemmy.keychat.orgEnglish
    141·
    11 months ago

    Makes me kinda wish that when defederating you could select a one word label for why. Like a fixed list with several options like pedo, spam, harassment, abandoned, etc and a default of other. Make it a bit easier with a big list like this to say, oh 1000 of these 1400 all selected “racism” when defederating so it’s probably very racist and I should also defederate. But if it’s a lot of “other” or inconsistent reasons maybe I should spend a bit of time digging.

    • winterayars@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      563·
      11 months ago

      Places like Lemmygrad and Hexbear are actually pretty benign. They’re just on the verge of being acceptable to people so they make a lot of noise and cause a lot of drama but in terms of the actual bad actors… well, as you can see, they don’t even rate.

      • neidu@feddit.nlEnglish
        182·
        11 months ago

        Agreed. While I tend to disagree with most of the viewpoints coming from lemmygrad, at least the content is posted with benign intent. The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        94·
        11 months ago

        Meh, I don’t really find the open mass murder fetish benign at all. I don’t care what color your fash is, it’s still abhorrent.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafeEnglish
          32·
          11 months ago

          I guess it’s slightly better that they’re mostly honest deniers instead of “they had it coming” types.

          I think. I personally find it refreshing in small doses to deal with people that actually know what the fuck they’re talking about in terms of political theory, some of the shit .world users will say is…

          Upsetting, intellectually.

          Of course, so is talking to a genuine Stalinist.

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            5·
            11 months ago

            My experience with hexbear has been pretty fucking far from them knowing political theory, outside of one very specific niche they can kind of articulate as long as you don’t ask them to reduce any of it to fundamentals or first principles.

            As far as I can tell, their one trick is quoting books they haven’t actually read, assuming nobody else has read them either. I’ve literally had this same interaction three or four times at this point, over books which don’t say the things they think they say. Like multiple people arguing that some Chomsky work supports their orthodox ML theory.

            You can literally get them to argue against the works they are trying cite by quoting them. It’s amusing for a bit, but then it’s just sad.

            • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafeEnglish
              12·
              11 months ago

              Hexbear and Lemmygrad are different instances, but tbh at this point I’m just happy with people that can at least vaguely define liberalism and socialism, and I don’t have to see the great minds upvote “communism is right wing, AKSHUALLY, because right wing means authoritarian.”

              Edit: ah wait, your comment was under one about both, I conflated it with the other chain about Lemmygrad specifically.

    • smeg@feddit.ukEnglish
      49·
      11 months ago

      I think this highlights what people think when they hear “defederating” vs its actual purpose. It’s controversial when it’s between serious instances that people actually use but with wildly incompatible opinions, but there’s very few objections when it’s blocking CSAM!

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.worldEnglish
        328·
        11 months ago

        Okay, yeah this was my thought as I wrote this, I won’t deny it. But to be fair, LemmyGrad does more than just to be controversial. They provoke and brigade and justify terrible Crimes against Humanity. And I might bet that some of the Stuff they say could even be illegal here in Germany.

        • smeg@feddit.ukEnglish
          13·
          11 months ago

          I imagine most of the big servers have them blocked but it’s probably the individual servers that make up the majority of the numbers. If you’re self-hosting then you can just ignore instances you don’t like and be relatively confident they won’t hassle you. The other kind though, probably want to preempt them!

        • Socsa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          41·
          11 months ago

          It is trivially easy to find examples of them wanting to nuke the US or kill all liberals or defending Soviet and Chinese pogroms, etc. I don’t understand how that’s really any different from saying “kill all Jews” or advocating for slavery tbh. As far as I can tell, the line exists because edgy redfash are mostly marginalized so nobody takes them seriously?

    • deleted@lemmy.worldEnglish
      372·
      11 months ago

      I think lemmygrad isn’t that bad considering pedo.school is halfway through the list.

    • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
      228·
      11 months ago

      I bet a large part of the Fediverse are Communist/Socialist too, or have similar ideas. Lemmy’s devs are, after all.

      I mean, the whole thing is based on the idea of being free to use for everyone.

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.worldEnglish
        358·
        11 months ago

        I see your Point. I see myself also as rather left. But the People over at Lemmygrad are not really left imo. They are authoritarian, for sure. But left? I don’t know. I don’t want to claim to be the sole “Incarnation of leftism” it’s just that many of my views and beliefs are the opposite of theirs.

        • JJROKCZ@lemmy.worldEnglish
          121·
          11 months ago

          The spectrum is more than left and right, I know political compass memes on Reddit got taken over by nazis but there is legitimately a whole compass. Stalin is somewhat center left, nudist hippie communes are lower left corner

        • winterayars@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          92·
          11 months ago

          There is, for better or worse, authoritarianism on the left. “You will be fed and given a place to stay and personal safety… or else!” Even in its more benign forms (ex Bolshevism) it’s kinda bad imo. When it gets extreme it gets… well… being an English speaker i’m sure you’ve heard all about it.

        • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
          2018·
          11 months ago

          Being vehemently against racism and fascism is left. It’s the logical extreme opposite of “a certain group of people are superior to everyone else”: “everyone is equal and their basic necessities should be provided for free”

          You just seem to disagree with the folks over on grad and Lemmy devs on how that can be achieved, and maybe to what extent it should be. They believe an authority is necessary to enforce those rules, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now.

          Personally, I see being pro-China like they are on grad as much less worrying than being pro-US, the latter of which I have a feeling .world mods wouldn’t block because of their inherent western bias. Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries for their resources, or overthrown democratically elected foreign governments to replace them with military dictatorships.

          • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.worldEnglish
            365·
            11 months ago

            Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries

            The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.

            I’m not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that’s my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done. And that’s not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.

            • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
              1320·
              11 months ago

              They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done

              That’s a heavy oversimplification of everything on there… I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.

              If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it’s only natural that you’d end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.

              The People of Tibet might disagree there

              Here’s an example of that. The fact that China’s education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they’re just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.

              • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.worldEnglish
                276·
                11 months ago

                You don’t get it. I don’t compare. It is not that is worse than that. China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don’t need to compare this to the US. I don’t care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil. Pull yourself away from comparing. You don’t have to weigh Evil against each other.

                EDIT:

                They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done.

                You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.

                • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  716·
                  11 months ago

                  you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think

                  Shouldn’t we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you’re being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this

                  China invaded and occupied Tibet

                  is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to “China invaded and occupied Tibet” is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.

                  Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here’s a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It’s similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.

              • DessertStorms@kbin.social
                166·
                11 months ago

                Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
                You’re a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren’t communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren’t in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time…

                • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  14·
                  11 months ago

                  Very mature of you. Brought alot to the discussion.

            • Arelin@lemmy.zipEnglish
              1210·
              11 months ago

              I don’t think they’re pro-Putin? Seem to be as much against Russian imperialism and capitalism as they are against US’s.

              Edit: Lmao one of the first comments I saw on there:

              Putin will be a narcissistic fence sitter who abuses power for his own ends

              So yeah, not very “pro-Putin”

              • kameecoding@lemmy.worldEnglish
                114·
                11 months ago

                and I saw some very pro Putin shit in places like chapotraphouse,even people for the genocide of ukraine

                • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  52·
                  11 months ago

                  I do wonder how much of that is Russian psyop. I feel like the whole chapotraphouse thing was started or at least very influenced by bad actors and propaganda bots. That place was a shitshow, for sure.

              • EndlessApollo@lemmy.worldEnglish
                61·
                11 months ago

                “I found literally one comment that doesn’t support Putin so clearly the tankie instance doesn’t support him!”

                • SeducingCamel@lemm.eeEnglish
                  36·
                  11 months ago

                  I literally have a hexbear account. People scream that the tankies love putin and that couldn’t be further from the truth. USSR? Yes but they shit on modern day Russia a lot

    • Kierunkowy74@kbin.social
      10·
      11 months ago

      Nobody on a Lemmy instance is able to follow accounts (like on Mastodon or /kbin). Thus, Lemmy will not fetch anything from Mastodon unless written specifically to a threadiverse community (and the community being CCed). Because of this, Lemmy instance are less harmful, than (potentially) any microblogging server (be it Mastodon, Pleroma, Soapbox, *key, etc.)

    • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafeEnglish
      51·
      11 months ago

      Sees a bunch of “freeze speech” including “freespeechextremist”- lol the classic

      Sees “freecumextremist”- oh no, the classic!

  • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    6010·
    11 months ago

    This actually gives me hope. The biggest Instances coming together to stand up for good values and fight off vermin like Nazis, Pedos and other pests of Humanity.

  • Jackcooper@lemmy.worldEnglish
    46·
    11 months ago

    TIL there’s a LOT of instances that lemmy world etc are not federated with… For good reason

      • Zak@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        11 months ago

        I’d argue it’s legitimate for server owners to decide who their servers communicate with arbitrarily. Servers that want to be popular, however usually have consistent policies for moderation.

        I self-host Mastodon and subscribed to a couple relays early on so my server has seen content from a variety of places. After I added a full-text search patch, I searched for some slurs to see if any racist content had reached my server. Some had, and it was all from poa.st - hardcore Nazi and KKK sort of stuff. I would absolutely block them if I was operating a public server.

        Fortunately, those people don’t try to interact with the bird photography and flashlight reviews my accounts post, so I haven’t had to do any moderation.

      • MolochAlter@lemmy.worldEnglish
        62·
        11 months ago

        Worth eating a ban for being objectively correct, IMO.

        Which instance is this bozo administrating?

        • Stamets@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          Literally none of them. This dude is pissed off and angry that he lost an argument a month ago. He keeps bringing this up while somehow graduating me from moderator to admin for no reason whatsoever. Especially hilarious considering he says that he broke off the argument after seeing i’m a mod when the actual message thread he was involved in directly proves the exact opposite. I’ve also never suggested defederation with anyone except for hexbear and lemmygrad. Two instances that Lemmy.world are already defederated from.

          Only bozo here is Blue Morpho.

          • MolochAlter@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            11 months ago

            Damn, nice, you got receipts and everything, too!

            Thanks for not calling me a bozo, too, cause i definitely was, lol.

            • Stamets@lemmy.worldEnglish
              31·
              11 months ago

              Someone sent me a message of a couple of his posts saying this. Just frustrated me. If people don’t like me that’s fine. I don’t care what people call me. But I do care when people are basing their opinion off of something that isn’t true.

              And nah. You weren’t a bozo. You fine. Happy holidays buddy.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
    391·
    11 months ago

    seal.cafe, cawfee.club and sleepy.cafe sure got welcoming names. Given the number of defederations, I doubt the contents are anything like the names.

    • viking@infosec.pubEnglish
      58·
      11 months ago

      Most of them were automatically defederated for not having adequate protection against bot signups, that got nothing to do with sketchy content.

      • Mango@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        11 months ago

        As someone interested in both sides of security game theory, what exactly helps stop bots? I grew up playing RuneScape and hating bots before making r/Artisanvideos and hating them even more. I’ve always wondered if it’s a matter of automatically detecting precise repetitive patterns or just specific giveaway signs.

      • hansl@lemmy.worldEnglish
        52·
        11 months ago

        If the bots are welcomed and they don’t have good enough moderation, this is just sketchy content with extra steps.

  • Clbull@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5719·
    11 months ago

    This is why I believe federation should be an opt-in process rather than servers being federated by default.

    Some of you may remember when Lemmy World was flooded with CSAM by other hostile instances and had to temporarily disable image uploads.

    • VBB@lemmy.worldEnglish
      43·
      11 months ago

      there are peoples who create instances for their families, who is going to manually federate with all these small instances?

      • Rin@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        11 months ago

        I’m actually thinking of doing the same for myself.

      • RickRussell_CA@kbin.social
        31·
        11 months ago

        Nominally, you’d need to go through some request process to request federation with other large instances. Then they’d vet your configuration before adding you.

        • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
          21·
          11 months ago

          Would be nice if they had some form of agreement where you can get accepted by one big instance, you get accepted by all. Or maybe even a standard order form and application which you can send to all major instances with the click of a button

    • 👁️👄👁️@lemm.eeEnglish
      421·
      11 months ago

      That would destroy the already limited content of the fedi. It’s like people hate content discovery for some reason.

    • Margot Robbie@lemmy.worldEnglish
      35·
      11 months ago

      Lemmy supports both blacklist and whitelist federation, but the only large instance that uses whitelist federation as far as I know currently is Hexbear.

  • AngryMob@lemmy.oneEnglish
    406·
    11 months ago

    This should include a user count in each so we can see just how many pedos and nazis are being punted to their own little disgusting bubbles

    • Sanyanov@lemmy.worldEnglish
      383·
      11 months ago

      A little correction: while some of pedo instances are full of potential child abusers, others are based on non-offending (i.e. stop fucking children ffs) principles.

      The latter are actually extremely important since they provide a gateway for otherwise potentially dangeous individuals to gain support and find professional help. Trying to instead blindly seed hatred towards people with any immutable traits is never productive, be it any mental disorder, sexuality, or otherwise, same as race and gender. In this case, it only prevents pedophiles from seeking help, making them more likely to become the child predator type and actually pose danger to kids.

      Being a pedophile is not a choice. Being a Nazi or a child abuser are, and those should fuck themselves (but also reconsider what they do and what they believe in).

      • El Barto@lemmy.worldEnglish
        92·
        11 months ago

        I’ll play the devil’s advocate here. Not supporting or opposing your point of view. Just to add to the discussion. Let’s use another extreme: People with a killing spree sexual attraction. I know, I know, it may be not the same, and it’s something that doesn’t exist (God I hope!) But for the sake of the argument, let’s assume it does.

        You have this forum of people posting memes about mass killings and frustrations about not being able to kill, but that you would totally never ever kill anyone, even though the urge is there.

        What would you think of such community? Would it be a safe one?

        (Dear CIA, NSA, FBI agents, the above is just a completely hypothetical scenario. I am a law-abiding citizen. Always have, always will.)

        • FlickOfTheBean@lemmy.worldEnglish
          6·
          11 months ago

          …there is a joke here that I could make about incel forums. I’m not going to try to because it’s in poor taste, but my point is that I’m pretty sure that does exist…

          Also, what’s your actual position if that’s your devil’s advocate position? I’m a bit unsure if the implication there is intentional or not

          • El Barto@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            11 months ago

            Well, I don’t really have a position. I think pedophilia is heinous, but I understand that sexual attraction is not a choice. Would an internet forum be a good and healthy supporting tool for pedophiles making an effort to do the right thing? That’s the question I’m trying to answer.

        • Sanyanov@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          I’d argue it’s way better to give them a platform to vent, so instead of going to the street and killing everyone they post memes and share therapists.

          Would I be grossed out? Hell yeah, just like with pedophilia. Would I still think it’s a good thing? Absolutely.

          It’s easy to go with your gut feeling and think you’re righteous to follow it. It’s always harder to think it through and do and support what’s actually right.

      • AngryMob@lemmy.oneEnglish
        56·
        11 months ago

        Being a pedo may not be a choice, but acting on it definitely is. And any pedo who has to go searching for pedo friendly communities is not looking for help, theyre looking to get off.

        Its not a big secret to them that they have something wrong to live with. They dont need a support community to tell them how not to fuck kids. It shouldnt take that much self control for them to not fuck kids…

        I’d even bet the vast majority of them already do just fine living normal lives. Just like the vast majority of “normal” adults dont go around raping each other just because they feel sexually aroused by someone.

        • Sanyanov@lemmy.worldEnglish
          142·
          11 months ago

          How do you jump from “searching for pedo friendly communities” to “looking to get off”?

          Imagine being a gay in a country where you’ll be in real danger if you’ll ever mention it. Would you like to have someone at least online to talk about how you feel? Probably yes. Same idea. It’s hard to hold up things that big throughout life, as just about any closeted LGBT+ person will tell you.

          And then with any attraction that is actually dangerous and also illegal when acted on, like, well, pedophilia, or zoophilia, or biastophilia, or God knows what, there will always be people in doubt on whether they should go for it or not. And a community of people with the same issue telling them “we know how you feel, but CERTAINLY NO” would be way more productive than randoms on the Internet shaming them and putting them into the same bin as actual rapists.

          Of course, most of them will probably never offend regardless. But people in doubt, as well as people in mental distress, are to always keep in mind. And if you ignore them, you get more child abuse, more suicides, and more pain and suffering in the world.

          • AngryMob@lemmy.oneEnglish
            63·
            11 months ago

            Maybe im wrong and they need support. Maybe im not. I certainly am in no position to say one way or another with authority. But i’d rather be wrong about keeping them shamed than be wrong about letting them feel positive about their issue.

            Either way, i respectfully am done discussing the topic for now. I will give your opinions some thought though.