“This is a good time to remind ourselves of the two Democratic Minnesota lawmakers who were shot just a few months ago. And Trump didn’t lower the flags for them or any school shooting.”
Let’s amend that title for correctness: “Everyone (sane, reasonable, not malicious, and intelligent) is talking…”
They are ignoring it completely. If you try and bring up how bad the administration is they just say “well both sides are bad.”
No, it’s a clear difference between both sides. One side respects the law and constitution and the other side is only concerned about gaining more power and hurting the working class.
No, it’s a clear difference between both sides.
Try telling that to someone who works for a wage. Hell, the Dems and Donald are allying to try and stop Zohran Mamdani, because he thinks wage workers shouldn’t have to live in poverty.
Is your impression that Biden and Trump were pretty much the same from the standpoint of the average wage worker? Because they were fucking night and day. Even on wages, not counting that a lot of those wage workers are at risk of getting ambushed by ICE and sent to some kind of horrifying Kafka prison. Along any axis you want to look at, there is a clear difference, I have no idea how you can try to claim there is not.
I don’t actually think any of this is super relevant to the somewhat more urgent conversation “One side thinks it’s okay to assassinate their domestic enemies, celebrated even, and the other does not,” but even in the terms you chose to reframe it in, there is a clear difference.
There is a clear difference between the two sides we are living it in real time and there’s no amount of both sidesing that will convince anyone with critical thinking skills.
Honestly, the fact that people are still trying to claim there is no “clear difference” should be a wake up call that it was always just a bunch of shit. I can maybe understand someone from before the election, just ignorant of how things were going to play out, or just wrapped up in a certain ideology or upset about the Democrats in general which is 100% understandable, something like that. At this point in the present though, it’s either total self-delusion or dishonesty on purpose. It’s like banging the table and swearing the sky is red and the ocean is malted milk.
Honestly don’t even need those. Just have eyes and don’t be in a cult
LOL at the downvotes.
You know I’m right. Cuomo is a Democrat.
If your point is that an uninformed voter may have checked out of politics because neither party will have an immediately noticeable impact on their lives, then sure.
Anyone paying moderate attention can see that the Democrats are trying to maintain the status quo, and the Republicans are trying to take another stab at fascism.
None of the above are good things, but to say they’re the same is crazy.
to say they’re the same is crazy.
The only difference is packaging. I don’t know how any reasonable person could have lived thorugh the Biden and Obama presidencies and not concluded that they’re fascists with different messaging.
Hell, go look up who first appointed Tom Homan if you don’t agree with me.
I’ve been very critical of the Democrats here (being from a different country and having a much broader political exposure than the typical American, I see them as a very rightwing party in broader World Politics terms) and would say that most of the core motivations of the people who are establishment Democrat politicians are the same as those of the Republicans politicians.
They are, however very different in what means they think are acceptable to use, how much damage they’re willing to do to society in general to achieve what they want and even on how far they will go, from present day Republicans.
At the moment Republicans are outright Fascists very much using the NAZI playbook on things like Propaganda and bits of it on other things (such as their subversion of the Judiciary, takeover of the Press and using the powers of the state they have gotten their hands on far beyond what is Lawful).
The establishment Democrats are smooth liars and some of them are even colaborators, but they still value the old rules, proportionality and not breaking everything. They’re definitelly not fighting for the “little man”, however their favoring of “keep it within the rules” means that they are far less destructive and that does mean they are not as bad for the “little man”, because guess who gets fucked up the most when the everything breaks (hint: it’s not the rich).
I would even go as far as saying that right now mainstream Democrats are the “conservatives” (in the sense that they want things to stay as they are) whilst the Republicans are the revolutionaries (not, “Revolution of the Proletariat” kind of Revolution, rather the “Fascist takeover” kind).
They’re not the same.
Doesn’t mean that either side is good, it means they’re objectivelly different in terms of what they do and the outcomes of it.
they’re fascists with different messaging
Biden: Claims he’s going to close Gitmo, releases 25 detainees leaving 15 in custody thus reneging on his promise
Trump: Expands Gitmo to 30,000 and makes dozens of little mini-Gitmo black sites all across the US, actively works to put people into them literally as fast as he can make his rapidly expanding machinery ramp up, soon to potentially include you or me, our US citizen passports may stop working, too.
FlashMobOfOne: Literally the same picture
I honestly can’t think of a reason you would claim this other than to try to work to shove the edges of the Lemmy hivemind’s Overton window. There are not going to be people who believe you on this, you’re talking like we are not inside the US watching it all happen right now.
I don’t know how any reasonable person could have lived thorugh the Biden and Obama presidencies and not concluded that they’re fascists with different messaging.
HOLY SHIT. Now THAT is a fucking LOL.
Tom Homan
Oh, I’m well aware of where that jackass came from. I’m no fan of the Democrats’ immigration policies, drone policies, or many other policies but HOLY SHIT are you off your rocker.
That is like comparing Joe Biden’s uncomfortable shoulder touching to Trump’s literal raping of women and children. Yeah, both are bad, icky, not cool but fucking LOL trying to equate that shit. You must be fucking with us.
AOC sold out on israel too… They are all good at talking and doing nothing.
GOP has no problems doing whatever they want, but democrats can never pass any law that benefits working class.
ACA 13 years in has proven to be utter failures from cost and quality perspective
Normies still tlak about fewillion people pre existing conditions… Yeah good for them but how does this help people paying higher premiums for shitter coverage
I guess I missed this, but how did AOC sell out to Israel?
Her entire MO is that she doesn’t support providing israel with “offensive” weapons which is why she recently vote to send more money to israel for “defensive” weapons.
She is likely setting up for presidential runs and her calculus tells her she needs Israeli lobby.
Interesting, I wonder if she voted that way to avoid supporting anything from MTG.
how does this help people paying higher premiums for shitter coverage
The access to health care they claim Obamacare provides only exists if you can afford to be price-gouged. It’s working as designed, and people just kind of ignore that pre-existing condition or no, you still don’t get care if you can’t pay.
It was a brilliant symbolic move on Obama’s part though.
you really have no idea how expensive healthcare was if you had a “pre-existing condition” before the ACA
And yet, it’s only worse now.
Not just Trump, I don’t see anybody on the right even trying to hold themselves to the same standard they demand of the left. There’s no good-faith effort whatsoever. They play the victim and demonize the left with every opportunity they get and every time they end up being guilty of what they constantly accuse the left of they flip-flop their stance and promptly move on, only to repeat the same script for the next atrocity their ideology produces.
And yet, time and again the left seems to be either unable to recognize this or unwilling to accept it. They act as if we continue to make concessions then we’ll be able to find a common ground, reunite as a nation and return to “normalcy”, despite every indication that the right has no interest in cooperation whatsoever, even when it comes to agreeing on objective reality.
Fuck the right, we should be demanding better from ourselves. You really want to be like that gaggle of cave brained cunts???
That gaggle of cave brained cunts seems to be succeeding despite themselves and despite acting against their constituents best interests.
The argument is we need to do something different, need to meet them on the same battlefield. Somehow we need to prevail without degenerating into more of the same
They arent succeeding. Social media is fucking with your head. Outside, the real world is just fine. Trumps online influence is barely a whisper.
The way to defeating them, is by giving the voters who never turned up something to vote for. In 2016, everyone was sick of the corrupting in politics. Its almost 10 years later, and its so much worse. The Dems and DNC are part of the problem. Had Bernie got the nom, he would have been Trump easily. Even republicans at the time(not maga) said they wont vote for Bernie. Instead, they gave the voters more corruption with Hilary. And Trump won. They did it again in 2020, when once again Bernie would have won with ease. Instead this time he was told to step aside for Biden. It should be noted that of the 15 or however many candidates it was that were up for the nom, Biden was the only one who didnt have a free healthcare plan. And Biden was the one they all pushed hard to forced everyone else, including making Harris a laughing stock over her plans, in favour of the one guy who would make sure the money continued to flow in the right direction.
People are desperate for change, real change. Not that fake change Trump has been selling. Real change, that opens up a future that is working two or three jobs just to kinda make ends meet. The DNC needs to step up and give the voters that option because the RNC wont. But I dont think the DNC will either. Just last December when AOC was to get a committee seat that would have been a large stepping stone to running in 2028, Nancy Pelosi rallied to make sure she didnt get the seat. The seat instead going to a 75 year old man with cancer who ended up dying 4 months later. Thats what we are faced with here. Corruption on all sides, and even when we have a 35 year old woman in her prime, the old boys network wont get out of the way, because someone like her wouldnt play well with the higher ups in the party or their donors.
Somethings gotta give, and its not gonna be on the RNC side. They are seeing too much support from following the MAGA crowd. So it needs to the dems. And the people need to get the message through, that they want actual change to vote for. Its the only way to win. Becoming just like the people we hate is not winning. Its worse than losing.
@shplane@lemmy.world @sunzu2@thebrainbin.org I can’t see sunzu’s posts, presumably because they’re instance-banned for propaganda or something, but shplane asked a question about “when did AOC sell out to Israel” that has a really important answer, and so being unable to post a direct reply I’m just making it at top level.
So, what happened was that a while back MTG introduced an amendment to one of those big horrifying money-for-war bills that every so often passes through the US congress and unleashes a really unfathomable amount of tangible suffering on the world, without much more than a few hours’ attention being paid to it at all either inside or outside congress. MTG’s amendment would have removed a small amount of funding for Israel including a grant which is used among other things for some of their “defensive” weapons for civilian areas, while leaving intact the waterfall of money for their offensive weaponry. AOC voted no on that amendment, along with practically everyone else, and then said some dumb shit about why she did.
Of course, later on, she voted no for the massive funding bill which spent $830 billion on various types of killing, including $6 billion for Israel for offensive weapons.
Some people seized on that single vote and claimed that it overshadowed her no vote on the main bill, her protests in favor of Palestine, her attempts to block funding for Israel in ways that were a lot less stupid than MTG’s amendment (to the point that at one point Biden got mad at her personally and they had a meeting about it or something, because she was materially gumming up the works), basically all of her support for Palestine which is super rare in the US congress. They’re still talking about how bad she betrayed Palestine. It becomes a whole narrative, where she’s now pro-genocide irrevocably forever, and if you challenge them on it, they can run and hide behind the fact that she did, in fact, vote against that amendment, and so it’s proved now. She’s bad. Don’t vote for her.
For some reason, this only happens to the left-est of left politicians. You will never heard someone randomly start cursing about how big an asshole Joe Manchin was when he did absolutely incalculable damage to the planet by blocking the first iteration of the IRA. No, you will only hear these kind of neatly-packaged reasons not to support a left politician deployed and repeated (there are only like 10-20 of them, you start to see them repeat after a while if you pay attention) against the leftest of the bunch.
Wonder why.
Are they? All I hear is the standard answer shopping to pin this on trans, internet, and gaming.
It’s cos Trump is a child rapist and using it to distract people
Unfortunately they don’t feel guilt or shame, so calling out hypocrisy doesn’t work with them. Maybe it’ll make the undecideds/uninformed wake up though.
Yeah I really fucking wish people would fucking stop with the whole “you’re a hypocrite” thing cos shameless people don’t fucking care about what they spew so it does fuck all but make them laugh
I think you’re right, but it’s worth pointing the hypocrisy to non-maga.
Don’t treat maga like they’re arguing in good faith.
Thank you for that detailed explanation. Very helpful
That’s the beauty of being a partisan, of either team color.
You can change your opinion on a dime, based on what your favorite news network tells you to think, and you probably aren’t even aware of how hypocritical you are.
It is not partisan to take note of the fact that one team keeps assassinating people, and it’s weird that it suddenly turned into a big deal now because they assassinated one of their own instead of just assassinating Democrats as normal.
Thanks, FalseEquivocatorOfOne
