Everything else aside… What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
Nothing. The “emergency order” is entirely so he doesn’t have to go through Congress to do it.
“I can do anything I want if it’s an emergency!”
Dang i wonder if we can find example of emergency powers eroding democracy in the past now…
Not from a jedi…
“And I get to say when it’s an emergency!”
Quickly becoming his go to play. It’s how he pushed through tariffs and how he was able to auto deport all those people. There’s probably more that I’m unaware of but the amount of national emergencies the man has declared so far is kinda crazy
i thought liberal democracies had mechanisms to stop this from happening!
They do, it’s called “voting”. Unfortunately, this “liberal democracy” (which it hasn’t been a true-democracy in over a century) has a large portion of voters that refuse to execute their civil duty as a citizen of a city-state.
Essentially, people want all the benefits of living in a society without putting forth the work required to maintain it. Cracks eventually start to show, corruption leaks in, and that’s how fascism begins to grow in the cellar of Democracy’s home. That’s how we’ve gotten where we are.
But does this type of EO have legal backing?
It’s kind of a case by case basis is my understanding. The president does have pretty broad emergency powers but the courts can block any individual one if they feel it’s overstepping.
Building “freedom cities” for billionaires, maybe. In his '23 announcement, it specifically stated:
Freedom Cities will be built on federal land that is undeveloped and not part of any of our country’s magnificent national parks or other natural treasures.
Which I assume means they’ll be built on your parks?
(for anyone scrolling past like, “wtf are freedom cities” - it’s feudalism. The Company Town. Literally lords and serfs type shit. Plenty of good places to read more about it, but here’s one to start.)
Almost like they’re fully comforatble with reckless corruption.
They are fully comfortable with reckless profits. Corruption is just the price to pay.
Profit
I guess domestic demand is high because we certainly can’t export them.
‘emergency’ is a word that means the executive does what they want
Perhaps to mitigate the repercussions from tariffs on lumber from Canada. We saw a bailout for farmers impacted by his previous tariffs, the administration may actually believe the national forests can save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
Maybe because the dumb fuck instituted tariffs that makes lumber prohibitively expensive? I don’t know. Nothing makes any fucking sense anymore.
Have to urgently circumvent Congress.
The MDF furniture must flow
What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
Replacing timber we previously got from Canada before the screaming from the industries that use lumber that is now tariffed gets too loud.
I don’t know enough about those industries to know if it’ll work, though.
I don’t think we have the sawmill capacity.
Millions of prisoners with hand tools can do that job.
and its the forests timber is not even good quality too.
probably something to distract the masses, from all the federal cuts, and tariffs from the news,
gotta find some work to do for the chauvinist american workers
trump… Ensureing America has no future
What’s the emergency? Climate change isn’t catastrophic enough yet?
It’s so the US can build more vacant houses.
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While we all ignored our local and county elections, while we ignored our neighborhoods and “avoided conflict” by only attacking other leftists for not being pure enough
there are plenty of blue states, blue counties, etc. this sure as hell isn’t an ‘all of us’ problem.
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Once again, we find out most of the past presidents just obeyed decorum and norms… Did no one consider that a bad-faith president would just say, "uh…‘EMERGENCY!’ " then he’s allowed to bypass Congress and just do whatever the fuck he wants!?
There are 3 powers here supposed to balance:
- the president
- the houses
- the supreme court
Guess who scored all of them?
Incidentally this is the reason the judiciary power in other democracies is self governed (e.g., judges elect their own supreme court) and parties in the judiciary are forbidden
But… well… here we are 🤷♂️
Afaik congress could stop him, revoking his “emergency tariff powers” and revoking the emergency itself. But they won’t. Like Trump, they only seek power.
Yeah, these Republicans are absolute enablers. It’s pathetic…
We need to start using the right words.
They aren’t just enablers.
They are traitors.
This needs to be turned against him. Obviously through the courts would be ideal. But at least in terms of the media juxtaposing his emergency declarations with his golfing.
Hey, that’s emergency golfing to you, buddy!
Break in and plant trees all over the fairway and turn the green into a pond.
18 times.
On all his golf courses.
No, not against just him, against the entire party supporting him.
Also that the emergency has been created by him ergo not really an emergency
We went over this with bush 2 and decided the answer is basically yes. Otherwise it’d be letting the terrorists win
In 200 years people will ask in disbelief why such old forests were logged down.
IM ASKING THAT NOW!!
We know why. Because Trump sees no value in anything beyond being right. He is right to tariff Canada, because the Canadians are mean. And he is right to have national parks stripped bare, because Canada is tariffed. It’s just flawless logic. /s
That’s if the planet survives till then, which at the rate things are going no way we make it that long
The planet will be just fine. I’d wager that life will continue, the earth will still be filled with living creatures for a long time to come.
It just won’t include us. Or most of the things we care about.
I feel bad for all the creatures that we will be taking down with us.
The planet will survive. Humans may not survive, but I’m no longer so sure that’s a bad thing…
Check out where our forests were at at the end of the 1800’s. 90% of the trees in Michigan were gone. All current forests are new growth and under 150 years old here in Michigan.
In 200 years, humans will be extinct.
An optimist in our midst
I don’t think we have much of any old growth forests left even before this honestly.
mostly the pacific northwest. where also the giant and coastal redwood is.
The answer is because patriots aren’t willing to defend them by force.
Please stop spouting this propaganda. We have less than 2 decades of western white civilisation left. Other continents far less. It’s not helpful and it propagates this hopium and drives people to complacency.
E: your downvotes are as futile as the hopium propaganda. Truth hurts, but sets you free.
People don’t seem to be aware that there are estimates that there could be 1.2 BILLION climate refugees by 2050. And it’s not like they all just decide to migrate in that year.
We think things look fascist now? If we do not stomp out fascism immediately, there’s going to be mass genocide. If people stop being complacent right now, we could do so much better.
I don’t have my hopes up though.
Yep. There this complacent coddling that seems to have happened where people sit on fences for eons
“Let’s wait and see if we really do break 1.5ºC of warming. It’s too early to tell now” “Let’s wait and see if Trump does full Hitler. He’s got a unique style, but so many people voting for him can’t be wrong” “Let’s wait and see if we need to divest our USA interests and our military reliance. They have a difficult moment now, but surely will bounce back. They always have”
In a way, during peacetime, there is a sense of security in that fence sitting, but now, during wartime, it is the thing that costs hundreds of thousands of lives.
We’re in for a really tough ride.
Also, for those interested, there are safe spaces for people who have come off the fence. !collapse@lemmy.ml and !collapse@sopuli.xyz and !collapse@slrpnk.net being the most prominent on Lemmy atm.
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Pointing out imminent collapse is white replacement stuff how exactly? What even could white replacement mean in this context?
Yeah that was my bad, sorry. I misread another comment.
Sorry, sorry, sorry…
All good brother
Damn, that bait is so obvious, a newborn fish just looked at me like I was crazy for thinking it would fall for it.
If you don’t think there’s a significant chance of climate change wrecking modern civilization in the next 20 years, you’re just doing climate denial.
they didn’t say “modern civilization”. they said “western white civilisation [sic]”
edit: and they’re also peddling astrology bs in the rest of the thread so no wonder they’re getting downvoted.
Fuck, some of that will be last remaining old growth, forever lost
That includes almost all remaining old growth forests. Almost all of the areas he chose are old growth forests. Here’s a map of all remaining old growth forests in the US for comparison.
how does Alaska have so little old growth forest?
I imagine it’s hard for forests to grow in such a climate
I’ve been wondering the same thing ever since seeing the map.
I think I see some exploitation of fewer forestry service members now too.
I’m guessing ‘old growth’ in this map means like 80 year forests or something. I’m extremely skeptical that this much forest was never logged.
No. You’d be surprised. Old growth specifically means forests where the trees are older than 200 years on average. If you include mature forests, which are defined as 80-200 years old on average, the amount of forest becomes much larger.
But also consider how much there used to be, and how much disappeared. The US was the first place in the world to really add forest protections. Theodore Roosevelt alone set aside over 150 million acres as national forests at the turn of the 20th century. We’re insanely lucky that happened. I’ve been lucky enough to have traveled to and seen national forests in almost every US state. It makes me die inside knowing they might get cut down now.
It’s an emergency!! We need lumber for… Things. Quick!
Shipping it to Gaza to build his casinos, resorts and condos for his Russian buddies. Israel is just about done genociding so the shipments have to start soon.
The Gaza Riviera.
I wouldn’t go anywhere near it. Those luxury condos, resorts, hotels, and casinos that Kushner has been negotiating for since immediately after Oct 7, are going to be prime targets for terrorism for YEARS, and I won’t be sorry about it at all.
The entire region is going to be a heavily militarized zone. That’s a fun vacation.
When the Ents had reduced a large part of the southern walls to rubbish, and what was left of his people had bolted and deserted him, Saruman fled in a panic. He seems to have been at the gates when we arrived: I expect he came to watch his splendid army march out. When the Ents broke their way in, he left in a hurry. They did not spot him at first. But the night had opened out, and there was a great light of stars, quite enough for Ents to see by, and suddenly Quickbeam gave a cry “The tree-killer, the tree-killer!” Quickbeam is a gentle creature, but he hates Saruman all the more fiercely for that: his people suffered cruelly from orc-axes. He leapt down the path from the inner gate, and he can move like a wind when he is roused. There was a pale figure hurrying away in and out of the shadows of the pillars, and it had nearly reached the stairs to the tower-door. But it was a near thing. Quickbeam was so hot after him, that he was within a step or two of being caught and strangled when he slipped in through the door.
“Emergency orders” designed to protect this country in case we’re attacked are being used by presidents to sidestep the constitutional as it regards separation of powers. It’s about time this shit came to an end also.
If everything is an emergency then nothing is our you simply cannot govern.
I guess America needed a declaration of emergency in domestic timber supply, caused by the declaration of an emergency of having friends as trading partners for timber 🦫…
So many emergencies - we’re being attacked on all sides… by industrialists.
How are Congress and Senate okay with just being made completely redundant? Don’t they have at least a modicum of professional pride?
Apparently none whatsoever.
Thats what they always use emergency powers for, and why theyre always causing emergencies
Do you know why greece is so barren? Because in antiquity they chopped all the trees for their navy
I love that this map still has the Gulf of Mexico.
I hate that this will be done to our national forests. They’re a natural treasure and should be protected for so many reasons.
It was nice to have a planet while it lasted, I guess.
Don’t worry. The planet will be fine. We may not be around, but life will persist.
First of all I’m not even sure about that. Well, I guess the tardigrades will make it. Secondly, that thought still does not fill me with joy.
A massive chunk of the Antarctic shelf broke free last month. Researchers got an ROV there the next day and found an ecosystem that was entirely cut off from the world for centuries. Life will survive, even if humanity doesn’t.
Some life. A very little.
There only needs to be a little. That’s how evolution works…
Maybe
The earth has literally gone through more rapid climate changes in the past.
Chernobyl is teeming with life and we royally fucked that up. Organisms have been found that eat oil and plastic. Humans are fragile. Life as a whole is not. Flora and fauna will persist and bounce back long after we fucked off.
Even if technically correct, this kind of attitude
justifiesencourages pricks like Trump to misquote using only the first part, then proceed to more shit like this.Really tired of this response. It’s old. like, 80’s old. It was funny at first.
Cool story. Doesn’t make it any less true. And the reason why people keep saying it is because they are equally tired of the “OMG the planet is dying and we are destroying all life” chorus. We know. We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem, we need viable solutions. Ones that take the general population’s propensity for shitty behavior into account.
So you want people to shut up about it so we can ignore it? Do you think the oil industry stopped their propaganda machine? The current president publicly claims climate change isn’t real ffs.
If you actually consciously posted that because you’re tired of the “our planet is dying” crowd, you are actually a legit mouthpiece spreading oil propoganda. Just wow.
Your reading comprehension sucks. I said give me solutions. It’s kind of hard to want solutions if you think there’s no problem.
And what the US president says has no bearing on this. The rest of the world already knows he’s a malicious actor; we’re just waiting for the Americans to get off their asses and do something about him.
And the reason why people keep saying it is because they are equally tired of the “OMG the planet is dying and we are destroying all life” chorus. We know. We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem
Is this not more then half your comment?
We clearly need more awareness if in our current predicament, someone like trump can get elected. The fact is the environment is nowhere near high enough on the list of priorities of most governments.
We also have solutions but we aren’t implementing them mainly because the goverments would rather protect their oil and car industries amongst others.
You think volume of text dictates what the final conclusion of a comment is? This is why I was questioning your reading comprehension.
And the car thing is exactly what I’m talking about when I said elsewhere that a “solution” is only a real solution if it takes peoples’ behavior into account. The reality is, people are not going to give up their cars. It isn’t going to happen (in North America, at least). So if any solution tries to include not driving as an integral part, it will fail. Hence the push for electric vehicles. Even if the grid were 100% fossil fuel based, electric cars would still be drastically better. Plus, it’s a lot easier to build out renewable grid power than it is to change peoples lifestyles.
It’s not that it isn’t true, it’s that it’s a tired response that adds nothing to the conversation. It’s nothing but “well ackshually”
Well it might be true, but so are most platitudes. So instead of wasting internet, pick up a stick and kick the orange, or come up with a better solution than truisms that make more harm than good
Doesn’t make it any less true.
What is “it” and what is “true”? Besides some of the biggest concepts the human mind can concieve. Okay, no, fine, let’s just put it in dead simple terms: human life will end in preventable, miserable horror and animal life will do the same, but rocks and amoebas may survive and barf out some other complex life forms someday.
I guess we’ll never know because we won’t be here but also the idea that that happens at all is just the best guess we’ve all agreed to for now. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Ha ha ha. Pithy!
We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem, we need viable solutions. Ones that take the general population’s propensity for shitty behavior into account.
So we’re all “aware” huh. That doesn’t track with what I’m seeing but if you say so. And we already have the solutions, as you know. Have had since the 80s, ironically(?). “The population”'s propensity for shitty behavior notwithstanding.
If your solutions that you’ve had since the 80’s don’t account for people’s behavior, then you don’t actually have a solution.
It’s like the old joke with school physics problems always starting with “ignoring forces of friction and assuming a point mass…”. Yeah you can do that math and come up with an answer, but if you try to apply that answer to real life, it will likely not even come close to working.
It’s alright. We made some killer shareholder value. Can’t wait to tell the grandkids that, assuming I live that long.
Time for this guy to get taken out…of office.
I really hope to see him buried soon.
Under massive voter disapproval polls and impeachment proceedings.
To quote local shitstain Mike Davis, who was SUPER TOTALLY JUST JOKING “I want to drag their dead political bodies through the streets, burn them, and throw them off the wall.” Which, you know, same to you buddy.
It’s cool it’s OK when he says it.
Remember: a can of expanding foam can disable most any vehicle when sprayed in the right places.
Do chainsaws still snap and maim their wielders when they hit rebar in trees?
They sure do! And they still ruin expensive lumber mill equipment. Just a few trees can make an entire logging job unprofitable and not worth the risk.
Bonus, it’s a felony to spike a tree, so you’d qualify for being president as well!
How do you put rebar in a tree tho? Purely hypothetical
Hypothetically, I would look up how to do it.
But, if I had to make something up on the fly, I would get a length of rebar and cut it in half at an angle so you get two equal lengths spikes, then I would find out what size trees are most likely to be targeted in a logging campaign, then climb up to that height on the tree and hammer them in.
Hypothetically.
Thank you! Hypothetically.
A pound of sugar in a gas tank is also an option.
Sugar in a gas tank will only really clog the fuel filter. Sucrose doesn’t dissolve in gasoline. Water in the fuel would be more harmful than sugar.
Mothballs.
Or squirt super glue in the locks.
Sand+oil+paint mixture on the windows.
Stuff the radiator full of dryer lint.
There is no shortage of ways to cheaply and quickly fuck up equipment.
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Acetone fucks your paint up, which probably costs more than replacing the lock.
We used JB Weld in door locks. No getting that off with acetone.
So a bottle of sugar water, got it.
Bleach, in the radiator mythbusters did this one, sugar won’t even slow down a modern engine, water is kind of shitty but you can just drain it and restart. Bleach in the radiator will age the engine by a decade for every 10 minutes its running.
Can’t find that one – did you mean bleach in the oil tank?
That might be it!
That’s also what concrete delivery guys use to stop the mix from curing in the hopper when their truck gets delayed or breaks down. (Well, more specifically, soda – not sure if the carbonation is also significant.)
Its the sugar, it slows the curing of the concrete but doesn’t stop it entirely. Over about 2% concentration by weight it begins to affect the strength of the finished concrete though.
All these vehicles have fleet keys. No one is worried about someone stealing a logger
It’s crazy how republicans are framing cutting down forests as a “good way to prevent arsons”
