seems like the ‘safe’ public opinion is ‘we stand behind israel’ and the left opinion is palestinian support

i don’t live there i don’t have any particular interest or fascination with the region i don’t understand any of this pls don’t yell at me

  • NightLily@lemmy.basedcount.com
    439·
    1 year ago

    The safe position is, Israel did bad things but Hamas is bad for wanting to commit genocide/attacking random festival. I think.

    • InfiniteGlitch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      5218·
      1 year ago

      I said this in another thread and I will say it again here:

      I always find it odd how people blame “extremists” and the Palestinians for this.

      Israel starts to steal homes, land and killing men, children and women. No one bat an eye to that.

      Then extremists and hate towards Israel came and bam, they are the bad ones suddenly.

      Certainly what Hamas does is entirely wrong however - People cannot expect them be silent and get killed by Israeli forces.

      This is what happens from decades upon decades of oppression.

      This entire conflict was created by Israel stealing land and starting a genocide mission on Palestinians.

      • iegod@lemm.ee
        3·
        1 year ago

        Yes when you kill other humans intentionally you are depraved. Doesn’t matter if you are american, Israeli, Chinese, or Palestinian.

        Yes you can be oppressed and wronged.

        Both can be true.

        But the murderous part is your own decision. It needn’t be the only one.

        • Square Singer@feddit.de
          71·
          1 year ago

          Nope.

          Before WW1 the area was inhabited by Arabs and controlled by the Ottomans.

          During WW1, the Brits promised the Arabs an independent state of Palestine, if they revolt against the Ottomans and kick them out, which they did.

          The Brits, being Brits, did what Brits do and kept control over that area, now called Mandatory Palestine, and wanted to keep controlling that area “until such time as they are able to stand alone”.

          So this area was very much promised to the people who lived there for centuries.

          At the same time, Zionist Jews wanted their own national state, and antisemites in Europe wanted the same, as long as that meant that the Jews where far away from Europe. So this unlikely alliance between Jews and Antisemites first looked at moving the Jews to Uganda, which was also controlled by the Brits. That plan fell through, and instead they promised them modern-day Israel. Of course without asking the natives who they promised the area too.

          So lots of Jews moved there, which the natives didn’t like. Both sides mounted a bigger insurrection, until the UN, again without asking the natives, decided to split up the area between Jews and Palestinians.

          The local arab population, aided by Jordan and Egypt, started a war, that Israel won. Israel then annexed a lot of land, that, according to the UN plan was promised to the Palestinians and since then they occupied the areas and ruled with an iron fist there. For each Israeli killed, they kill 20 Palestinians. Palestinians are not allowed to leave the area and Israel randomly turns off water, electricity and food supplies, whenever they feel like it.

          Claiming “it’s just because Arabs don’t like Israel” is pretty one-sided.

          What happened there is pretty much every right-extremist-conspiracy-theorist’s fever nightmare. A huge amount of foreign settlers immigrating, taking away land and supressing the local population. But instead of this being conspiracy nonsense that right-wing extremists spew to cause fear, it really happened there. And it was even much worse than the right-wing fear phantasies.

          • EvilHaitianEatingYourCat@lemmy.world
            5·
            1 year ago

            I agree with almost everything you said, except the first paragraph. Jews were living in that area for thousands of years, it’s not like they been dropped to a completely new territory.

            So they did have historic ties with that land

            • Square Singer@feddit.de
              33·
              1 year ago

              Yes, there was a tiny minority of Jews in the area during Ottoman rule. But it was fewer people than Christians there. And almost all of the Jews that moved there to found Israel had no connection to the land at all.

        • InfiniteGlitch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          2·
          1 year ago

          That’s okay! Wishing is a good thing. However I’m glad blocking exists on Lemmy.

          EDIT: Would like to add on this, that it is kind of sad and unfortunate that you do not have a counter argument or even at least a valid one and thus you have to resort to such a thing.

      • OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.worldEnglish
        89·
        1 year ago

        Israel starts to steal homes, land and killing men, children and women.

        Can I get a source for this? I’ve been living under a rock.

      • glimse@lemmy.world
        31·
        1 year ago

        Close.

        Israel was and is bad for committing genocide.

        Hamas is bad for doing a terrorism

        Palestinians are apparently bad because the government the majority of them didn’t vote for is bad.

        The true victims of this war, as always, are the civilians

      • wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
        151·
        1 year ago

        Hamas is a bad palestinian group.

        But palastine minus hamas really holds no fault. Israel is the antagonist between the two nations.

        Hamas just just a terrorist response to that. And while terrorism is always bad, israel did actively cultivate that terror group.

        • redballooon@lemm.ee
          41·
          1 year ago

          Huh, interesting take. I guess Israel minus the settler hardliners is as unfaulty.

          • Bigmouse@lemmy.world
            1·
            1 year ago

            Meh… Israel helped make Hamas big, way before they were known as Hamas. Back then they just were an offshoot of the egyptian Muslim Brotherhood organisation. Fatah was/is secular and Israel sought to utilize islamist organizations agaibst Fatah, who they saw as their main opponent. And it worked. There was violence between secular and islamist palestinian organisations.

            But -shock horror- the islamists turned out to be a greater threat to israel than the secular fatah.

            It’s a little like 9/11. I vehemently disavow and condemn the attacks. But on the other hand, you kinda made your own bed so to speak.

              • radix@lemm.ee
                14·
                1 year ago

                Probably by fighting actual soldiers, not bombing civilians and kidnapping children.

              • wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
                5·
                1 year ago

                So, specifically palestinians in general?

                I think based on what little I know of the region and the style of invasion, guerrilla tactics would likely be ideal. Finding some sort of ally on the global stage to help them argue their case against israels abundant political backing. Make the occupation as inconvenient for israels government as possible, while doing everything they can to shift the global publics opinion into sympathy for their fight.

                  • wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
                    6·
                    1 year ago

                    The current engagement bombed a music festival.

                    That is absolutely part of armed struggle. Look at ukraine, and how its usage of global opinion saved it from a 2 week slaughter fest by giving it the backing of US intelligence. Ukraine perfectly demonstrated how, if you are the underdog losing the war, being able to shift global public opinion of your situation can literally save your life.

                    Instead, they alienated every nation who had a civilian at that event, gave israel an excuse to declare war and openly genocide their people instead of hide it in inches, made it racially charged by immediately releasing a statement blaming zionist jews and calling for jewish extinction, and gave their political opponents across the globe free and easy ammunition to shut up any pro palestine rhetoric or talking points.

                    Hamas really fucked up. They gave anti palestine sentiment a free scapegoat target. They are lucky spain is taking the charge to try and distance palestine from hamas on the global stage, because its going to be even harder to shake israel of its massive global backing that it relies on in order to hold on to power.

                    I sympathize with palestine. Israels government is run by monsters. But this action may be the spark israel needed to burn palestine to the ground, and its very very very hard to un-bomb civilians.

              • dalekcaan@lemm.ee
                31·
                1 year ago

                Without raping and murdering civilians, to start? Fuck Israel, but that doesn’t make Hamas the good guys.

                  • dalekcaan@lemm.ee
                    41·
                    1 year ago

                    Oh fuck off with that hexbear lemmygrad shit. I’m not talking about war as some nebulous concept, I’m saying raping and killing civilians is bad regardless of if you’ve been wronged or not. If that’s a controversial opinion to you, I have nothing more to discuss.