probablyaCat

Sealioning. I haven’t heard of this before but this sounds like a very interesting phenomenon. Do you have more information? Is this a new term? Where did it originate?

Yeah I saw when that happened. I don’t do the open sharing. But it is easy to identify me as a Jew plenty of other ways. Including online with things attached to my real name. So it is what it is.

Yeah this doesn’t bother me. And I tend to be a somewhat paranoid person. But I got convinced to do one of these by my partner. And so far, no regrets. They had some family surprises, but they don’t regret it either. If they make some cool new meds with my DNA (honestly even if I have only the knowledge that they made meds from 23andme) I’m just going to go around saying hey that might have my DNA in it.

Just wait until you guys find out what they’re really doing is cloning us all to replace us with mindless worker drones. I accidentally met mine. They were nice. Bought me a coffee. Then I got real sleepy and woke up half buried in the woods. Real strange day.

It’s interconnected, sure, but I think you’d have an uphill battle that it doesn’t belong to that person.

Someone peaking out a door at soldiers with a small black object? Well I dunno. Why would soldiers ever shoot in such a situation…

Oh damn. You’re right. I’m a little more familiar with ben Gvir’s history than the whole movement and conflated them. Looking into it, I have changed my stance. The military needs better separation of Torah and State. Also, ben Gvir and Otzma Yehudit are still just giant piles of shit.

I still have issues with much of the Haredi. Things like their iron grip on religious control in Israel, domestic abuse issues, cult like behavior, demanding special treatment, and feeding off of others to survive.

But yeah that isn’t Otzma Yehudit. They’re more of religious militants it seems. Certainly not helping the state of things. Doesn’t help that the haredi groups and religious zionists easily form coalitions.

I absolutely loathe Otzma Yehudit. They are like MAGA, Vox, National Rally, and the rest of the far right religious assholes. While I understand why Israel separated religious courts and authority from the government (don’t like how they did it though), they should have, at the very least, tied voting and government eligibility to national service. So much of the ultra orthodox functions like the extremist Mormon FLDS does in the US. A fucking stain on my people.

So are you arguing that both the governments of Israel and Palestine in no way represent the people they govern?

Ah so I got it backwards. They started with noting abuses, but the letter gained them some notoriety(or infamy depending on who you ask). Good to know.

Again, I have mixed (at best) feelings about it. They do these things in public so don’t necessarily have a reason to expect privacy. I have experienced harassment on campus, myself. But I’m unsure that it will have the desired long term impact.

So other minority groups are given authority on deciding what is and isn’t racist, bigoted, etc.
to them. Particularly amongst the left. Why are Jews not afforded that same authority? The vast majority of Jews in the US support Israel. We are typically Zionist. And when a terrorist group attacked Israel, rather than blaming the group that literally stated their goal is to kill all Jews, they blame the state of Israel for the entire situation and everything that has happened before, we aren’t supposed to see that as antisemitic? When they say Free Palestine. From the river to the sea. We aren’t supposed to see that as antisemitic? Why? Do some of us look too white to be a proper minority? Sure didn’t stop synagogues from getting bombed. Didn’t stop attacks from the Klan. Exclusion from public spaces, and this is just in the US. Should we also look at Europe? One of the reasons Jews support Israel is that now, for the first time in a long time, when people turn on us again, we still have a home.

This started as a response to the letter (as far as I can tell). But Hillel groups at universities (mine included) were regularly harassed by groups supporting a free Palestine. After the response to the letter, they realized “hey maybe we can do something about shit like that, too” (not a direct quote by them).

I mean we were just trying to hang out, pray, and eat food together. And my gut feeling is all of those people should be shamed. But my slower brain reaction is that I hope some of those people that I regularly talked with started to better understand what they were saying.

McCarthyism targeted people for possibly (and often not actually) supporting a legal political movement. Supporting terrorist organizations and that being made public isn’t the same thing. And an individual or group using a website announcing someone’s public actions isn’t the same thing. McCarthy abused his authority as a member of the federal government to harass and and punish. Canary mission has no such authority. It just turns out a lot of people don’t like people who side with terrorists.

That being said, I am not really a fan of canary mission. I think more work needs to be done on education and understanding of the entire situation instead of a few of the most recent events. If I were still in the US, I would probably try to organize such groups. But it is definitely a much harder goal to accomplish.

If they don’t hear it, then it is essentially saying they agree with the lower court ruling. If they want to be against it then they have to hear it.

I suppose it doesn’t. They could call a vote on it at any point. But I don’t imagine they would unless provoked by a ruling. If they didn’t want him to lose in a single state, they could call it now and those state cases would go away. If they are waiting for that, then they know it will be appealed and would likely wait for the SCOTUS. Because why not? Why spend that political capital when it is likely to be unnecessary. MAGA hurt them a lot in the midterms.

But you are right. They can technically call it. I should have been more clear. Given that they haven’t yet, they are likely waiting for outcomes if they are going to at all. It’s also possible that aside from the MAGA nutjob faithfuls (looking at you MTG) they really want him to be done. And even if they don’t, to stop before it had a supreme court ruling would be basically admitting he was part of an insurrection, but you want to support him anyways.

But these groups and people weren’t the same people as the ones that walked across the land bridge. The cultures had long since diverged and were different. Wars had been fought. Whole groups died or merged. And if you go back a little further, they are all closely related. I don’t think the point is that the slaughtering and pillaging was OK. It is that you cannot have a good faith argument on fixing current problems by trying to focus only on arbitrary time periods to claim certain privileges. I am very much in favor of doing more to make the lives of the native americans better, but I also will not make the argument that descendants of Europeans or Africans have no claim to the land there either. Because to do so is not in good faith and just ignores reality. Any time period you pick to decide who has a claim to a place is arbitrary. We cannot change the past. We can only change the future (but we are limited by the confines of the present).

They don’t hold 2/3 vote of both houses. Zero chance congress would overturn the ruling (granted the final ruling would have to come from the US supreme court).

Yes, but if Minnesota says he is off the ballot it will be appealed to the supreme court who is the authority on constitutional interpretation. If they side with Minnesota, not even the electoral college can put him in. Likely whichever (if any) case goes against him, all other active trials will be put on hold awaiting a response from the USSC. If they decide the 14th does apply (a big if given the state of the USSC), then it is over. In all 50 states. That’s why groups are hitting him in multiple states. They just need 1. It isn’t an attempt to take him off the ballot. It is an attempt to end his federal political career entirely.

Nah. Don’t let the current situation fool you. You’ve seen that I’m very pro-Israel in my other comments. But there are many of us that are lefties through and through. I mean most Jews in the US lean slightly left of the democrats. I lean further. And David ben Gurion was super leftist. Hardcore socialist commie pinko, that one. If I had been around for the founding of Israel, I’d probably have been kicking back on a kibbutz somewhere.

But the right is definitely not our friend. Most of them support Israel for christo-fascist dreams of the apocalypse. They want to use us. And we should be careful to think that we are the ones using them.

I do not know where you are from, but especially concerning the US and Europe, I do think it’s important to understand where this support comes from – even if they don’t actually know it either. It’s the underdog problem. Israel is much stronger than in the past. We have won many wars against people who wished to murder us all. We became a force to be reckoned with. And the Palestinian territories are the underdog. And the left has normalized seeing the underdog as the marginalized victim. They are not used to seeing an underdog victimizer. From South Africa to Ireland to PoCs and the LGBT+ communities, they are used to things going one way. And things are not one way. There is a whole 3d plane of possibilities in this world. And that’s why I argue more about Israel than anything else on here. To try to help people see that things are not black and white. This isn’t a left or right issue. This isn’t a David vs Goliath issue. This is something that cannot be boiled down to simple concepts or comparisons. And the more you know, the harder it really is to if not agree with what Israel is doing, to at least understand why they might make the choices they do. And it is not for the sole purpose of ethnic cleansing or genocide. At least not for the majority.

This is a lie. Hamas won the vote. The EU, UN, and the Carter Center all called those elections free and fair. If anything, Hamas was an underdog given that Israel, in collaboration with Fatah, kept arresting the politicians in Hamas as they defined Hamas a terrorist organization. Fatah and Israel wanted to delay the elections, but with the encouragement of the US (GWB in particular who felt Hamas would definitely not win), they decided to keep them as they were. Stop making things up to fit your narrative. Hamas still typically wins the popular vote in polling done since then. You have a fucking computer. Just google it. It’s all there in black and white.

I mean they did have conflicts with Fatah. But the biggest fights weren’t until after they won the election.

There won’t be one because he is disqualified from office (if these suits are successful). Not from running. From office. If Mickey Mouse won we wouldn’t have a cartoon for president. Second place would win.

Regardless we might have another insurrection attempt, but this time the authorities will be more prepared. So unless the military decides on a coup, a successful suit here would be the end of it for him.