From defence to trade, the incoming US president is upending the old order – and standing apart from our neighbours leaves us dangerously exposed, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland
Yes, the majority of Brexitiers are from former UKIP and Conservative ranks. But I’m constantly surprised how people don’t understand that a sizeable minority of Labour voters pushed Brexit over the line. These are Labour voters that the party still wants to court.
Labour isn’t going to grow a pair. Because growing a pair would send them straight out of office after they fought so hard to get back in.
That is the realpolitik. But as the demographic moves on, and anyone able to change their mind looks how it has turned out, we calls to rejoin in some form will be overwhelming.
Oh absolutely. FPTP is a dangerous system to have in an age of vote splitting nutty populism. Labour should be putting country above party and killing FPTP as soon as possible.
No, I’m sorry, you don’t simply dismiss views that you don’t hold as being Nazi racist. That’s cheap and does nothing to persuade Labour Brexit voters from rethinking their opposition to the EU. A lot of them feel (felt) that their livelihoods were being constantly threatened by a race to the bottom for cheap labour imported by freedom of movement. The unions were pretty vocal about wanting more state intervention and subsidies that, they felt, were not permitted under EU law.
Now what you need to do is tackle these questions head on and convince these Labour Brexit voters that this isn’t the case. How does a modern Labour party show that these voters haven’t been left behind by EU integration. Calling them Nazis just alienates them and, guess what, causes a crushing defeat to Boris Fucking Johnson.
But it sounds like you think anyone that disagrees with you is a racist idiot? And if you’re serious about reversing Brexit you’re going to have to convince people you disagree with that it is in their best interests. Calling them racist idiots is bad way to do that. Do you see that? Or you still don’t care about reversing Brexit?
My friend, what you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense.
People who supported Brexshit don’t need convincing.
OK
They need to be educated or re-educated.
As in a forceful Clockwork Orange style re-education? Or… you know… education via convincing them of a different opinion? What exactly do you think re-education involves?
Until it happens their views should be ignored.
That’s not how voting works in this country (UK). The very process of voting means you’re asking for people’s opinions and views on things and requesting that they choose an option that represents that in a ballot. Are you suggesting that in order to reverse what has already happened we hold another vote and simply not count the ones you disagree with?
I honestly don’t know what your plan is apart from calling people names.
Yes, the majority of Brexitiers are from former UKIP and Conservative ranks. But I’m constantly surprised how people don’t understand that a sizeable minority of Labour voters pushed Brexit over the line. These are Labour voters that the party still wants to court.
Labour isn’t going to grow a pair. Because growing a pair would send them straight out of office after they fought so hard to get back in.
That is the realpolitik. But as the demographic moves on, and anyone able to change their mind looks how it has turned out, we calls to rejoin in some form will be overwhelming.
I agree. I just don’t think it will be that way for a good ten years or more.
It’s realpolitik in a country governed by FPTP.
Fix our broken election system and we’ll have center rigir/center-left governments like every other European country.
Oh absolutely. FPTP is a dangerous system to have in an age of vote splitting nutty populism. Labour should be putting country above party and killing FPTP as soon as possible.
Yes, because pandering to racists ended so well in Germany before the ww2. Oh, hold on…
No, I’m sorry, you don’t simply dismiss views that you don’t hold as being Nazi racist. That’s cheap and does nothing to persuade Labour Brexit voters from rethinking their opposition to the EU. A lot of them feel (felt) that their livelihoods were being constantly threatened by a race to the bottom for cheap labour imported by freedom of movement. The unions were pretty vocal about wanting more state intervention and subsidies that, they felt, were not permitted under EU law.
Now what you need to do is tackle these questions head on and convince these Labour Brexit voters that this isn’t the case. How does a modern Labour party show that these voters haven’t been left behind by EU integration. Calling them Nazis just alienates them and, guess what, causes a crushing defeat to Boris Fucking Johnson.
I don’t. There were in fact 3 groups of people who voted for Brexshit:
Groups 1&2 overlapped to large extent. Group 3 was relatively small: tax dodging businessmen, Tory politicians etc.
One shouldn’t pander to neither. People need to be educated (group 2) or compulsorily reeducated (group 1).
Group 3 should end up in prisons after the law is changed to make public lies with a intention to mislead the public a criminal offence.
As a strategy to reverse Brexit and win round people that voted for it, let me break it to you, calling them racist idiot cunts isn’t going to work.
🫠
I don’t give a fuck what racists and idiots think so there is that.
But it sounds like you think anyone that disagrees with you is a racist idiot? And if you’re serious about reversing Brexit you’re going to have to convince people you disagree with that it is in their best interests. Calling them racist idiots is bad way to do that. Do you see that? Or you still don’t care about reversing Brexit?
Can you actually read?
People who supported Brexshit don’t need convincing. They need to be educated or re-educated. Until it happens their views should be ignored.
My friend, what you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense.
OK
As in a forceful Clockwork Orange style re-education? Or… you know… education via convincing them of a different opinion? What exactly do you think re-education involves?
That’s not how voting works in this country (UK). The very process of voting means you’re asking for people’s opinions and views on things and requesting that they choose an option that represents that in a ballot. Are you suggesting that in order to reverse what has already happened we hold another vote and simply not count the ones you disagree with?
I honestly don’t know what your plan is apart from calling people names.
I’m not sure you understand correctly.
The options outlined above are pander to racists or have racists in charge.
Although I can concur, either way we’re probably fucked.