No, let’s just murder anyone whose skin colour I personally hate.
The difference is, your scenario is made up, and the scenario I described happened a lot
Oh, I have just escaped Russia, not going back there any time soon, thank you. Still, you are getting jailed and killed there for openly expressing very particular sort of ideas, which is very different from jailing and killing everyone from different ethnicity indiscriminately
I believe this is an example of a “straw man” argument.
First you mischaracterize OP’s claim – basically “tolerance of the intolerant leads to the intolerant gaining power and not being tolerant” becomes “murder all who disagree”. Then you use sarcasm to knock down the straw man you built (because of course murdering all who disagree is bad).
It’s more a criticism of the rampant idea I see floating around on Lemmy that people that hold harmful political views should be executed. What does “intolerance” look like?
Walking the fine line is hard. But here’s a real life example: demomstrators armed with rifles and guarding outside Drag events have reduced the level of vitriol nearby and led fascists to whine about it on Twitter and question their pro 2A belief system.
So what happens when someone has views that objectively do threaten everyone else? Do we sacrifice the safety of all just to not be hypocrites? Because I’d personally rather be a hypocrite than a genocide victim
Ohh, yes they do. Ideas dictate your actions, to start. And even someone holding negative ideas toward you in and of itself is an inherent threat to your existence in a lot of ways. I have lived most of my life that way, because of racism, and the fact that people inwardly hated me for what I am affected my ability to be able to be properly integrated and accepted into any community, hampering my ability to develop functionally, which I have to work hard every day to repair as an adult.
My right to be accepted as a kid and be able to develop social skills around people who wanted me around and therefore would speak with me in good faith absolutely trumped the rest of the community’s right to hold hateful ideas. Yet here we are.
If you hate someone because of race, or gender or whatever stupid fucking superficial characteristic is a problem this time, you need to leave, not me.
A white racist town where I was hated and unwanted for being Black. Because that’s what you’re defending when you cry about free speech. That’s what they believe free speech and other human rights like freedom of association means: that they can have their white-only enclaves and chase out anyone who isn’t like them. They couldn’t kick me out because I was a kid, but they broke me in other, far more insidious ways. And they were able to do it because it’s not a free speech issue, it’s a racism issue.
Also, you don’t have a right to have people around you like you.
You tell that to your compatriots whose bigotry you are defending.
I can’t help but feel you are exaggerating. What if people didn’t like you because they don’t like you, rather than race.
And yes, you have ZERO right to make people around you like you. Don’t live around shitty people. 95%+ of the USA is not racist. I’m sorry you didn’t fit in when you were a kid but don’t try to do away with free speech because your feelings were hurt.
And yes, you have ZERO right to make people around you like you.
Tell that to the racists I was forced to grow up around. They were silently raging that I wasn’t white like them my whole life. Perhaps you ought to explain they could never make me white like them, or drive me away for not being such.
What if people didn’t like you because they don’t like you, rather than race.
Then all we need to do is look at how you demand compassion for rapists – your white rapists – and we can see your accusation is completely disingenuous.
I could tell you how the racists around me accused me of the same thing, and how when I would change myself thinking I was the problem, they’d just laugh and find another flaw. Then another, then another. Then find flaws contradictory to what they claimed was the problem, and how it was always obvious to everyone else around me except myself that I was never the problem. They were just concern trolling to hide their racism. Because that’s how racism actually works – the cruelty is the point. 🤷
I could tell you about the few other dark-skinned kids in that neighborhood who were treated the same way, and of the white kids who’d fight with their parents, start having sex at 10 and start drinking and smoking at 12, who for some reason were never put under a microscope as I was, simply because they were white.
I could point out that no child is deserving of that kind of emotional abuse – and that’s what scrutinizing the personality of a child is – regardless of race and for you it would still go in one ear and out the other. Because you’re a racist.
I could tell you all about that, and more, but it won’t matter, because you yourself are a dishonest racist and the fact that you even made that stupid fucking argument is the proof. What could a little kid possibly even do to get an entire community full of adults to shun them? What kind of adults shun any kid for any reason?
Don’t live around shitty people.
You’re welcome to explain how a 7 year old is supposed to move anywhere.
I’m sorry you didn’t fit in when you were a kid but don’t try to do away with free speech because your feelings were hurt.
No you’re not, quit lying.
Also I’m not the one getting rid of free speech. You can thank your little Nazi friends for showing everyone why it doesn’t actually work, and then get angry at everybody else you’re not allowed to hate other people for stupid reasons anymore.
The truth is no one can change your feelings or that of your Nazi friends. This is true. But, as you so blatantly come out and say when you imply I should have left the racist town I grew up in at 7 years old because I have no right to expect to be loved or cared for as an equal, we can just make you leave.
Since you won’t stop being hateful, you can’t participate in society anymore. If you don’t like LGBTQ+ or Black people or women having power, leave. Get the fuck out. Get out like you’re telling me my 7 year old self should have. Take your racism elsewhere.
Let’s just murder anyone who doesn’t agree with us. This will surely lead to an orderly, civilized society.
No, let’s just murder anyone whose skin colour I personally hate.
The difference is, your scenario is made up, and the scenario I described happened a lot
You don’t think anyone has been murdered for having the wrong ideas?
To be true, both scenarios happened alot of times already.
Have you ever heard of the Cambodian genocide?
Go to Russia or North Korea and start saying things the government doesn’t agree with. I’m sure you’ll be fine.
Oh, I have just escaped Russia, not going back there any time soon, thank you. Still, you are getting jailed and killed there for openly expressing very particular sort of ideas, which is very different from jailing and killing everyone from different ethnicity indiscriminately
That’s what Nazis do and why everyone else is trying to ban them.
I believe this is an example of a “straw man” argument.
First you mischaracterize OP’s claim – basically “tolerance of the intolerant leads to the intolerant gaining power and not being tolerant” becomes “murder all who disagree”. Then you use sarcasm to knock down the straw man you built (because of course murdering all who disagree is bad).
It’s more a criticism of the rampant idea I see floating around on Lemmy that people that hold harmful political views should be executed. What does “intolerance” look like?
Walking the fine line is hard. But here’s a real life example: demomstrators armed with rifles and guarding outside Drag events have reduced the level of vitriol nearby and led fascists to whine about it on Twitter and question their pro 2A belief system.
noo but as long as they agree with MY views they are fine (my views are objectively correct) /s
So what happens when someone has views that objectively do threaten everyone else? Do we sacrifice the safety of all just to not be hypocrites? Because I’d personally rather be a hypocrite than a genocide victim
Ideas don’t threaten anyone. Actions do.
Ohh, yes they do. Ideas dictate your actions, to start. And even someone holding negative ideas toward you in and of itself is an inherent threat to your existence in a lot of ways. I have lived most of my life that way, because of racism, and the fact that people inwardly hated me for what I am affected my ability to be able to be properly integrated and accepted into any community, hampering my ability to develop functionally, which I have to work hard every day to repair as an adult.
My right to be accepted as a kid and be able to develop social skills around people who wanted me around and therefore would speak with me in good faith absolutely trumped the rest of the community’s right to hold hateful ideas. Yet here we are.
If you hate someone because of race, or gender or whatever stupid fucking superficial characteristic is a problem this time, you need to leave, not me.
Where do you live that everyone around you hated you for your race? While racists do exist, your average person does not care.
Also, you don’t have a right to have people around you like you.
A white racist town where I was hated and unwanted for being Black. Because that’s what you’re defending when you cry about free speech. That’s what they believe free speech and other human rights like freedom of association means: that they can have their white-only enclaves and chase out anyone who isn’t like them. They couldn’t kick me out because I was a kid, but they broke me in other, far more insidious ways. And they were able to do it because it’s not a free speech issue, it’s a racism issue.
You tell that to your compatriots whose bigotry you are defending.
I can’t help but feel you are exaggerating. What if people didn’t like you because they don’t like you, rather than race.
And yes, you have ZERO right to make people around you like you. Don’t live around shitty people. 95%+ of the USA is not racist. I’m sorry you didn’t fit in when you were a kid but don’t try to do away with free speech because your feelings were hurt.
Tell that to the racists I was forced to grow up around. They were silently raging that I wasn’t white like them my whole life. Perhaps you ought to explain they could never make me white like them, or drive me away for not being such.
Then all we need to do is look at how you demand compassion for rapists – your white rapists – and we can see your accusation is completely disingenuous.
I could tell you how the racists around me accused me of the same thing, and how when I would change myself thinking I was the problem, they’d just laugh and find another flaw. Then another, then another. Then find flaws contradictory to what they claimed was the problem, and how it was always obvious to everyone else around me except myself that I was never the problem. They were just concern trolling to hide their racism. Because that’s how racism actually works – the cruelty is the point. 🤷
I could tell you about the few other dark-skinned kids in that neighborhood who were treated the same way, and of the white kids who’d fight with their parents, start having sex at 10 and start drinking and smoking at 12, who for some reason were never put under a microscope as I was, simply because they were white.
I could point out that no child is deserving of that kind of emotional abuse – and that’s what scrutinizing the personality of a child is – regardless of race and for you it would still go in one ear and out the other. Because you’re a racist.
I could tell you all about that, and more, but it won’t matter, because you yourself are a dishonest racist and the fact that you even made that stupid fucking argument is the proof. What could a little kid possibly even do to get an entire community full of adults to shun them? What kind of adults shun any kid for any reason?
You’re welcome to explain how a 7 year old is supposed to move anywhere.
No you’re not, quit lying.
Also I’m not the one getting rid of free speech. You can thank your little Nazi friends for showing everyone why it doesn’t actually work, and then get angry at everybody else you’re not allowed to hate other people for stupid reasons anymore.
The truth is no one can change your feelings or that of your Nazi friends. This is true. But, as you so blatantly come out and say when you imply I should have left the racist town I grew up in at 7 years old because I have no right to expect to be loved or cared for as an equal, we can just make you leave.
Since you won’t stop being hateful, you can’t participate in society anymore. If you don’t like LGBTQ+ or Black people or women having power, leave. Get the fuck out. Get out like you’re telling me my 7 year old self should have. Take your racism elsewhere.
youre wrong. if a minority is treated poorly, there is no possible reason other than racism. /s