this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2024
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Enshittification

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What is enshittification?

The phenomenon of online platforms gradually degrading the quality of their services, often by promoting advertisements and sponsored content, in order to increase profits. (Cory Doctorow, 2022, extracted from Wikitionary) source

The lifecycle of Big Internet

We discuss how predatory big tech platforms live and die by luring people in and then decaying for profit.

Embrace, extend and extinguish

We also discuss how naturally open technologies like the Fediverse can be susceptible to corporate takeovers, rugpulls and subsequent enshittification.

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YouTube before vs. after massive corporate, profit-driven enshittification (files.catbox.moe)
submitted 2 months ago by Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/enshittification@lemmy.world
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[–] Thorry84@feddit.nl 48 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One of the most annoying things YT does to me is recommend videos I've already watched. Like I get it, they are perfect for me, exactly the type of video I watch. That's why I've already seen them. And because I don't have the memory of a housefly, I actually remember what the video was about. If I wanted to watch it again, I would navigate to my history or the channel it's from and rewatch it there.

It makes absolutely no sense to me, why recommend videos I've already seen?

I use a browser plugin to hide those videos, but it doesn't fully work.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Every. Fucking. Year. I swear, google just runs a query to remove view history past a certain age. Every. Fucking. Year, there comes a time where my ENTIRE FUCKING HOME PAGE basically resets to a year ago, because it forgot I watched every fucking video already.

Fuck Google. They're too lazy to do anything correct.

[–] jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago

FTFY: Fuck ~~Google~~ Alphabet. They're too ~~lazy~~ profitable to care to do anything correct.

[–] henfredemars@infosec.pub 34 points 2 months ago (3 children)

It seems like the current management is actively trying to find new ways to make the platform worse. It’s like a long train of bad decisions that most users somehow tolerate.

[–] laughing_hard@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I agree. YouTube is only running by the fact, that the content creators are only there. If there was another platform with comparable content and creators, i.e. a real competitor, YT would disintegrate immediately.

[–] Laser@feddit.org 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

If there was another platform with comparable content and creators, i.e. a real competitor, YT would disintegrate immediately.

And why are content creators on YouTube? Because it offers the option to monetize as good video creation requires time and effort that you could put into a job otherwise - not only a single person's, mind you. The monetization however only works if money is to be made on users, this wasn't a problem for years because of Google / Alphabet subsidizing YouTube, but in the end, a service should make money either directly or indirectly. And this is what the changes are about. This however is perceived as enshittification, probably even rightfully so - but you can't have a platform paying out the creators without getting anything from the users, be it a subscription fee or delivering ads.

I feel the criticism about this is somewhat misguided here, compared to things like operating systems - Windows has no needed to get worse, it had a sustainable business model, but corporate greed dictated changes for increased monetization. For YouTube, it was clear from the very beginning - or latest when Google bought it - that the business in that form isn't sustainable and that it only exists to accumulate users until they decide it's time to get an RoI.

Google has invested a shocking amount of money into the platform, both to make it attractive to (professional) content creators, but also on a technical front - the amount of data they store, process and deliver is unimaginable.

I'd love it to be different, but I totally understand why this is happening, and see it rather as a turn towards an honest business; and if alternatives ever have a chance, it's during times like these. Before, YouTube couldn't be defeated because of virtually unlimitedly deep pockets of Alphabet.

I don't think we'll see commercial rivals to this as the investment is very high, but maybe a surge of Peertube or similar comparable to what Mastodon and Lemmy are to their respective services.

[–] laughing_hard@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

You made some good points and I agree, that YouTube has to make money. It is a business after all. Still some decisions make it shittier than it was before for consumers and creators (imo at least):

I am not a content creator myself, but the current algorithms and model seem to make it hard for new creators to get any attention and monetize their content.

On the other hand, I feel the UX for consumers gets worse, especially since it is harder to find new, widely unknown content. But I don't know if it is better for subscribers, since I never subscribed.

Still I hope any competitor arises, may it be peer tube or some other platform. But you are probably right, without a big investment that is not going to happen soon.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

The monetization however only works if money is to be made on users, this wasn’t a problem for years because of Google / Alphabet subsidizing YouTube, but in the end, a service should make money either directly or indirectly. And this is what the changes are about. This however is perceived as enshittification,

It's true, but it's still enshittification because they offered one quality of service and then downgraded it to another level entirely. Many companies have done this and I'd even say that it's planned enshittification. You start out by providing something financially unsustainable, such as (relatively) ad-free high-quality video streaming. You do it so well that you drive everyone else out of business. THEN you either raise prices or force more ads and tracking.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

The latest in a string of bad decisions, a layout update that is annoying and makes no sense.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Enshitification. Once they cornered the market and killed competition they tried to squeeze it. What you going to do, leave? Where?

Actually there's an app that tries to turn this around and remove their monopoly by combining multiple streaming platforms into one: https://grayjay.app/ the more people would use it the less they would be able to do this without consequences

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hell no, I'm not spending money on "source-available" software made by a million dollar company. An application that doesn't even manage to put an open-source license on its source code is not worth my money. I'm happily donating to actual FOSS projects, but this isn't one. There are many free & open source alternatives like NewPipe (and forks like Tubular) and LibreTube, why use this source-available bullshit? It's fucking ridiculous, Louis Rossmann has spent so much time talking about and advocating for open source software, and then he heavily promotes a source-available product.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hey, he's not a developer. He doesn't know the nuances between ACTUAL FOSS and "source available", nor the VAST GULF of differences.

His heart is in the right place. ... but still, definitely go for real FOSS (not just OSS).

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Louis Rossmann isn't a developer, but the company he works with (FUTO) was founded by an experienced software developer, and employs multiple devs for their projects like Grayjay, Futo VoiceInput, their android keyboard and other stuff. Not using a FOSS license is an intentional choice, which is why I'm not giving them my money. They should really stop their "source-available paid software license" bullshit, just make it truly FOSS and I'll happily donate.

And btw I'm pretty sure that Louis realizes the differences between source-available and FOSS, he's a smart man.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

If he realizes the difference, he should push for full FOSS.

[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Hm? Feels like this forgot somet-[SPONSORED 1 OF 12]

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 24 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I miss when people made stuff because they loved making stuff, not because they wanted to get rich.

Sort of like how girls used to post sexy photos of themselves because they wanted attention, now they do it to get rich.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

I miss when people made stuff because they loved making stuff, not because they wanted to get rich.

They still do, but you'll never find it in the existing layout. The only stuff that bubbles to the surface is so heavily SEO engineered and hyper-monetized that it's got to be sixteen ads on the back of an infomercial in order to break even.

[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Very true. The old internet perfectly showed how people are happy to create and share content as enthusiasts, eg. wikipedia, reddit/forums, and lot of X rated amateur stuff.

Since then, capitalism has decided to leech on and ruin most of these. Now we have more content, but worse quality - because for the end user a genuine reddit review of a product was more useful than a targeted ad, and most ppl prefered to look at the videos of some random couple sharing it as a kink, rather than some endlessly polished fake amateur video.

[–] Zeke@fedia.io 1 points 2 months ago

There's still people who do that including the dnd group I'm in, but it's hidden behind the algorithm. Gotta hunt for the people doing it for fun.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Do I want to know what Elsagate is?

[–] kat_angstrom@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

If you have kids it's probably worth knowing about. If not, it might be better to avoid increasing your outrage

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Spidermans got Elsa pregnant. They need to do way instain mother.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

YT is filling up with the very heavily A/B tested content mills.

One thing that is assured to get a click from a small girl is Elsa. One thing that's sure to get a click from a small boy is Spiderman. Consequently, you get enormous swaths of content that are just people in Spiderman and Elsa costumes doing weird or innocuous things on camera. As the format has evolved, more click-baity content gets folded in. Being pregnant, getting vaccine shots, and covering each other with peanut butter all grab kids interest, so the people in the Elsa and Spiderman costumes run around with fake pregnancy bellies and oversized syringe needles and giant tubs of peanut butter to rub each other with.

It's perverse and it has no conceivable cinematic value, but it can be used to grab a small kid's attention for hours on end. So its the perfect tool for monetizing latchkey kids.

[–] RandomVideos@programming.dev 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The new youtube definitely promotes small channels

Most of my subscriptions are for small channels that youtube recommended to me

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah I know it's popular to shit on things here but honestly I'm pretty happy with the recommendation system right now, it gives a good mix of sure hits and adventurous small channels.

[–] sasquash@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

After they abolished the 5 star rating, things only went downhill. The newest bullshit are these "Posts". I had to unfollow some interesting accounts because they started to post images on YouTube which plastered my home feed. I don't want a TikTok clone, and I don't need social media bullshit, I just want a decent video hoster.

Edit: I just saw that revanced has a setting to hide Posts!

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 months ago

Posts in general are fine if they are used responsibly. Like asking which build to play next for an ARPG gaming channel.

I unfollowed a channel that started posting fucking Raid Shadow Legends ads in their community posts tho. Kinda sucked, I liked that channel but I don't condone that behavior. I realize that my unfollow did not change anything, but it's a matter of principle.

[–] ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I feel like it's more important than ever to call out creators that still produce high quality content. So, if you care about gaming / PC parts as a whole, give gamers nexus a shot.

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

Agreed, +1 for Gamers Nexus

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah greed taints everything

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago

Capitalism...

[–] Chozo@fedia.io 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I really don't understand the complaints on the "new" side. Most of them aren't even real, and it makes me wonder whether or not OP actually even uses YT at all.

  • Only promotes large channels - This hasn't been true for a while, and YT's actually been recommending a lot more smaller channels more often. I'm constantly being suggested channels I've never heard of, with sub-100 view counts. They even announced fairly recently that they were further stepping up recommendations for smaller channels, too.
  • Does nothing about Elsagate - What year is it??? The Elsagate trend has almost entirely died out, largely because the target audience has grown up and the newer generation of kids aren't engaging with that kind of material. There's only a very small handful of channels still making that sort of content, and they're not getting anywhere near the views they used to, because YT has filtered a lot of that out from child viewers now. The only Elsagate videos that I can see right now are "Elsa and Spiderman do something normal, nothing weird with vomit or syringes happens and Spiderman doesn't get pregnant".
  • No dislikes - They never mattered to begin with. Videos were almost always either 5% liked or 95% liked, and to glean any reasoning for those scores required more research than any user was ever putting in, anyway. It rarely ever represented the quality of the content, and it certainly didn't discourage YouTube from recommending disliked videos, because they recognize dislikes the exact same as a like; it's user engagement, so disliked videos were still recommended all the same.
  • The videos are forgettable slop - Subscribe to better channels then, that's 100% a you problem. There's still plenty of excellent content available, and it's not that hard to find. If you subscribe to trash channels, you're going to see trash videos. Play with the search more often.
  • Soulless channel layout - It was never anything more than a grid of thumbnails, what sort of layout nostalgia could you possibly have?
  • Makes a shitty TikTok clone - Then don't use it, it's super easy to avoid; the videos have a special icon, a vertical thumbnail, and are in their own section on the page. It's hard to accidentally watch YT Shorts.
  • Makes the site kid-friendly despite having an app for kids - I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. What about it is "kid friendly" at all? The fact that you can't put tits in a thumbnail? I have no clue what this is even referring to.
  • Age restricts videos for content that can be found in G-rated films - I think you may overestimate what is allowed for a G rating in films. Age-restriction occurs for more than just sex, violence, and profanity. In most cases, the subject material, itself, is what warrants the age-restriction.

I hate having to defend one of the biggest corps on the planet, but this is just not real.

[–] dafo@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I'm getting pretty tired of all the recommendations of videos with 8 views next to "real" videos. I'm most definitely not getting any recommendations to large corpo channels, other than the ones I actually enjoy (Mythical Kitchen is probably the most corpo channel I enjoy).

Shorts can go to hell, but they're very easy to avoid as you say.

[–] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 4 points 2 months ago

I must be using a different YouTube as everyone else since I'm not really experiencing any of that myself.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

*manually promoted Logan Paul's suicide forrest video

[–] LuuTuyen@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

I remember when YouTube was used to be a very good video platform site under Chad Hurley

WHY DIDN'T LET NEAL MOHAN AND YOUTUBE EMPLOYEES FIX THE PLATFORM AND MAKE IT FAR MORE USABLE?

[–] kat_angstrom@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hey now, me playing my flute with myself in an edited duet isn't "forgettable slop"! I'll have you know, my 15 views and 1 Like that I liked myself are the pinnacle of my music career.

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Link it and I'll like your video.

[–] kat_angstrom@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Awwws, thanks!

...I've only been playing the flute for 10 months though, so it's not very impressive. I'll send a link in a other 6 months after I learn how to vibrato so that my tone improves dramatically

[–] forgotmylastusername@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

I might be imagining things but for a brief period of time it showed a bit of analytics about video views. It was visible to everyone.

[–] Persen@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

What the hell is elsagate?

[–] rbesfe@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Find someone else to give you free video hosting then? If YouTube wasn't profit-driven, YouTube would be dead

[–] bokherif@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah bro I pay for premium and it’s still hot stinkin shit