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The author wasn’t selling DLSS, they were selling a shim to make it work with Starfield. That does require original work.
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Honestly, 90% of programming work now is “I got X library to work inside of Y new system in Z engine”. It makes sense too - it’s exceedingly rare that it makes sense to reinvent someone else’s wheel - and at times, not insignificant to implement the right hooks.
Things don’t need to be novel and amazing to be marketable. And if it’s that trivial, rather than pirating it people would just rewrite it. The fact that they’re stealing it means it has value.
The fact that they’re stealing it means it’s priced above its perceived value though.
So it has perceived value…
But that guy above was saying that it’s worthless and trivial to implement…
You can’t have it both ways.
That’s not true at all. People often steal because they value the item but cannot afford the price.
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Strange how they felt the need to pirate his non-work instead of just doing it themselves?
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There’s no need to do a search. People are paying for this product. Meaning they couldn’t find it elsewhere.
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I mean that assumes that literally everyone is going directly to Nexus Mods to look for this, which is laughable…
And starfield itself is useless without a huge stack of technology that someone else made. That’s just how software works.
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Do you copy and paste comments from reddit? I read this exact comment last night I am SURE of it
But DLSS is an Nvidia DLL, you’re not even licensed to redistribute it - and you’re not doing anything special, you’re hooking into the data the engine spews out for FSR.
If it’s not anything special, someone else could just “easily” reproduce it instead of having to pirate it?
They have, literally just a few hours slower than this guy charging people: https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/761
Can you link where it says you can’t redistribute DLSS? The Dev guide states pretty clearly it’s free to use with Nvidia gpus.
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They are not distributing components of the dll. They are creating a modification of a Bethesda game which has allowed modding at the discretion of Bethesda.
The Nvidia dll is being redistributed without modification for an Nvidia GPU as exactly described.
Do you think every single game publisher negotiated a deal or paid money to ensure DLSS in their game? Can you point out any documentation outside of the direct reference to the SDK license that I linked that is in direct opposition to what your are saying? Can you point to me any discussion what so ever about paying to implement DLSS?
If it’s so trivial to do why doesn’t everyone do it on their own?
If it’s any easy mod to replicate it seems like it won’t have much self life as a paid mod.
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Your post was quicker, don’t be so ratty.
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Everyone, calm down. I am better than all of you anyway so shoo along. Go somewhere else while I sit here. Majestically. Admiring how brilliant I am in conflict resolution. Veritable peace maker, I is. Why, the UN should call me…hello? Uh. Where’d yall go?
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Yeah holy shit, fuck this thread
Just to clarify for everyone, only this clown’s DLSS 3 mod (3 as in frame generation) is paywalld. His dlss 2 mod (2 as in normal dlss) is free on nexus.
Also to all the mental gymnasts trying to justify this horse shit, remember, the patreon sub is $5/MONTH. This means if you buy 1 month at $5 to download the mod, and the author “conveniently” comes out with an update one month later, you need to subscibe for another $5. So basically it’s a fucking subscription for a god damn dlss 3 mod. You know the aithor is kilking this bullshit to keep subscibers and keep his income flowing. Marty mcflt does the same fucking dogshit with his stupid ass RTGI reshade shaders. Fuck that shit. Those people can go get fucked.
I don’t feel bad for anyone pushing a subscription model.
Does this type of mod break with updates, or could you potentially just stay on the version you downloaded and forego any updates? I don’t mod much to the point where I’ve paid for any, but curious the requisite of ongoing subscription for this type of thing.
That’s a good question. I’m not sure but I’d assume it would break with updates. I was thinking more about just updates the author makes to make the mod better. Likely he’ll keep working on making it better but you can bet your booty thay he’ll keep making minor updates once a month to milk his subsciber’s money. Patreon is a fucking scam.
That McFly guy has been riding the “It’ll be released soon™” train for something like five years at this point.
DLSS 3 is way better than 2, so I pirated the shit out of that mod. Frame Generation is a game changer. It’s like a magic button that gives you an extra 30-60 FPS for free. Never understood the hate.
DLSS 3 is far worse than DLSS 2 IMO.
There’s basically zero disadvantage to turning on DLSS 2. Most of the time you cannot or can barely tell the difference.
DLSS 3 introduces lots of artifacting, some frames straight up look like DALL-E image, it adds input lag, and it needs you to already have a high framerate to start with to make it bearable, text in particular gets mangled by it.
Fast paced games and games that rely on quick reactions are a no-go for DLSS 3. It’s suitable for games like MS flight sim where adding input lag doesn’t really matter and there’s not rapid movement.
Knock it off with the fake news. My TV artifacts more than my 4090 when converting 24Hz films to 60/120. You can’t even notice any artifacting in DLSS 3 without taking screenshots and pixel-peeping. Quit talking out of your ass. DLSS 3 FG works amazingly well in Starfield.
If you think you can’t see any artifacting with DLSS 3 then you are crazy.
You’re arguing about visual fidelity with someone who uses their TV to “convert 24hz movies to 120fps”. It’s the equivalent of the guy who got into a heated debate over Italian food with a Redditor that also posted about drinking his own piss on /r/piss.
Yes, because comparing apples to oranges is the same thing as drinking your own piss. Get real, my dude.
Do you not understand how analogy works? Nobody is comparing what you did with drinking piss.
Why do people hate on it? I thought ot was pretty clear that it’s great. Unfortunately i can’t use it since I have a 3080.
It’s great if you have a decent framerate to start with, but it really struggles at lower framerates and you’ll get a lot of ugly artifacts if there’s any rapid movement on screen.
Where would one pirate thie mod?
An alternative mod that does the same thing is on the* Nexus now; you no longer need to pirate anything. Just download that.
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Yes, it already exists on Nexus, and without ReShade, but it is currently crashing the game a lot for users.
Why would reshade be relevant? I don’t get why without reshade is even worth mentioning?
The DLSS3 mod runs via ReShade. I don’t mind people charging for their work, but this guy is selling access to an Nvidia dll via an open source tool, which I am not a fan of. Not a lot of original work, just repackaging.
I’m talking about the DLSS3 mod with Frame Generation that is free on Nexus and doesn’t rely on ReShade. It was created by another person.
Personally I find it hard to care as I won’t be playing the game for longer then a month anyhow. That said, real easy to wait for someone else to drop a dlss3 mod or just go without.
Even easier to download the mod from someone else.
Okay but Martys RTGI is great and works in quite alot of games without much tinkering (just need to access depth buffer), don’t mind paying for it. Useally sub and let it expire once every few years.
“I don’t mind buying my own painting and then paying monthly for it to have some details filled in that eventually get painted over anyway at some rate”
Is it morally wrong to have someone spy on the detail painter and copy their techniques? (In this metaphor techniques are DLSS implementation, not the paint (DLSS itself))
Suddenly paylocked mod gets pirated? Imagine my shock
It’s like downloading Limewire Pro with Limewire, totally unexpected.
I wouldnt be surprised if his patreon gets hacked or at least a cease and desist.
What do you mean you don’t wanna pay for shit I didn’t pay for either, and do so on a monthly basis??
I should be allowed to freely profit off someone else’s work because I put some amount of personally chosen free time into my modifications and therefor should have power over the consumer and the original producer!!
Oink Oink!
Dude can charge whatever he wants, and you can choose to buy it or not. Super weird and annoying responses here.
Oh man, I saw a 2,000 word rant about it on Reddit. Just such whining
As if the dude would have bothered to do it for free? Likely not.
Pay, or don’t, and then reevaluate all the things you do for free and if you have room to stand
It’s a 1 time $5 fee. People are just mad that they’re broke after buying a 4090. Frustrations should be aimed at Nvidia, not this one dude trying to make a buck
After a 4090 and A 57" Samsung G9, you couldn’t afford a 5 dollar mod either!
If you can’t afford a 5 dollar mod after dropping 5k on gear, you shouldn’t be buying the gear my man lol
People should eat less avocado toast.
Yep, and buy real estate 30 years ago
Out of this whole thing, I just want to say something about this.
Some players’ reactions to the paywall have been unfavorable; they think that charging for mods is unethical and goes against the spirit of community modification
Everyone needs to make bread. Someone asking for money from their mod or map or whatever isn’t against any spirit. It’s just a human being asking to make bread. Now some don’t agree with the price tag and that’s fine.
But we all need to recognize humans asking for some dough for their hard work is in the spirit of existing. Some folk do it for free just for the feelings and we love ‘em for it. But those asking for some cash are no different.
This world is already full of dog eat dog. Let’s not hate on someone just trying to get through it. You don’t have to pay the ask, but let’s not go making enemies just cause we don’t agree on that number on the price tag.
I am not disagreeing with the premise that it’s fair for someone to be paid for their work. However, during the Skyrim paid mod controversy (on Steam), I learned that there a lot of situations where having paid mods did hurt the modding community and created ethical concerns.
- Mods were being stolen and sold by people that were not the actual mod authors.
- Mods were being sold that depended on larger, more complicated mods to function, but the payment was not shared with the larger mod.
- Mods that had multiple contributors were being sold by an individual who was not sharing the money with the other contributors.
- Players were concerned about being asked to pay for bug fix mods when the developer should be fixing their own game. This is of course, was not the modders fault and does not mean their bug fix mod wasn’t valuable or deserving of pay, but many felt the developer should pay for it, not users.
I would also point out that it wasn’t just greedy players that complained about paid mods - a lot of modders thought it went against the spirit of modding because of how it harmed collaboration in the community. Suddenly, they couldn’t trust that others would not steal their work or profit from it unfairly. And, that seems like a reasonable take to me, given all the abuses that modders claimed happened in the short time that paid modding was a thing for Skyrim on Steam.
It feels like the issue is that it was offering the convenience of payment to mods, but not really thinking about the necessary friction of assuring licenses/legality/etc. All of that CAN, of course, be an issue for cheap Unity games too. I remember back when Steam Greenlight started, they required each game to donate $100 to charity to even be considered, basically placing a bet of assurance that it wasn’t a stolen asset flip (I don’t know if they still do that).
I think you’re exactly right - it is the combination of money + little oversight that is the big problem. Warframe seems to do a good job with tennogen but they limit it to only cosmetic mods and seem to be pretty restrictive about what they accept into their store. I don’t see how you could have good oversight for a game with as many mods as something like Skyrim has.
It’s not “oversight”, but if a modder needs to create their own storefront and Paypal integration, and advertising through word of mouth and their own social contacts (as in this case it seems), then that’s going to offer a lot more scrutiny than a low-effort asset flipper presenting themselves anonymously through Steam’s given storefront.
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You don’t go into modding for the money. It’s like making a non profit for the money. That’s why they’re getting backlash, they’re asking money where money’s not supposed to be involved.
it’s like theyre making a non profit for the money, except the without the making a non profit part
This is such a shitty attitude 🤣
God forbid we pay for a fucking cup of coffee because that person should want to work for free. This is the same bullshit as “work hard play hard” and “we are family here”. Might as well start telling modders it’s not about the pay, it’s the people and experience we’re paying you in. Rent what’s that?
You are all on a lemmy instance after 2 months of non stop bitching about non paid reddit moderators. Make up your damn mind.
Yes, again you don’t mod for the money. If you’re looking for that, you can create your own software. Other people in this thread made other good points, and this guy was trying to make a dlss mod subscription based, so fuck that guy. It’s literally better if the mod doesn’t exist in that case. Like I said with my analogy, it’s like trying to create a non-profit for the profit. There’s a million other avenues available to them if they want money. Especially because they are basing their work off of other’s work whom are not getting paid, yet they are?
Also idk what you’re talking about with the mod stuff but I do think it’s dumb internet janitors do work for free lol, and they do it for power. I don’t think they should be paid either.
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Like what
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a mod list for Skyrim is bugfixes, a few UI/UX fixes, a graphics mod or two, and… that is it.
You’re fucking with us, right? RIGHT?? 😂
Wtf are you talking about, Skyrim has dozens of amazing quest mods, and hundreds of quest mods overall.
It has major gameplay overhauls, it has custom skeletons for animation, it literally has mods that rework the animation system entirely. Modders added a survival system almost a full decade before Bethesda did.
There are mods that add new continents ffs, what’re you talking about? One of the quest mods was so good it literally got turned into its own game.
Edit: There are currently 60k mods for Skyrim Special Edition, and about 70k for the original Skyrim. Meanwhile Morrowind has 11k. Wtf are you talking about??
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The Forgotten City
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The Forgotten City has “overwhelmingly positive” reviews on Steam with many people praising it for its Bethesda-like systems, so I’m not sure what you mean. Maybe you felt it wasn’t enough like Skyrim and disliked it for that, but clearly you don’t speak for others.
Also, no other Skyrim quest mod, out of the near 2 thousand quest mods for the game, had a full game built off of them. So while that does happen sometimes (ie Dayz), it’s exceedingly rare and far from some sort of “tradition” as you put it. If anything that was far more common a decade or two ago than it is now. The original Star Wars Battlefront mod was quite a long time ago after all.
And no I’m not mad, I’m just confused as to how you could think Skyrim has only bug fixes, UI, and graphics mods, when in reality it has nearly 7x the amount of mods that Morrowind has and is the primary example of a thriving modding scene. Idk if you just spouted that out without knowing, or what.
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This is pretty long response lol so I’ll tackle each point individually.
Plenty of niche games have “overwhelmingly positive” reviews on…
Your whole argument on niche games getting good reviews, I actually fully agree with. The problem is that those reviews are literally the only metric we have to discern whether or not the people that played it enjoyed it - anything else is pure speculation. Including your point about people not liking it if they felt it didn’t feel enough like Skyrim, or people saying they like it just to appease others. It’s frankly bizarre that you’d make an argument for Steam Reviews not 100% showing the accuracy of people’s opinions, while simultaneously making statements like those with zero anything to back them up.
At the very least the reviews tell us that people who played it say they liked it. That’s just a fact. And considering that that’s all we have, I think it’s fair to use it. Anything else, again, is just pure speculation.
I know it can be hard to keep reading after you see something that MAKES YOU SO ANGRY but you should try.
This was weird lol.
“7x the amount of mods that Morrowind has”. First, that ignores how many quests and mods were lost to time.
No, it doesn’t. Skyrim has over 70k mods while Morrowind has roughly 11k. Even if there were over one hundred missing quest mods for Morrowind, which I doubt, it still wouldn’t affect that massive difference.
But also? of course it has more mods. The same way that basically every new game in a franchise SHOULD sell more than the previous one did. The audience for gaming has exploded over the decades.
This… just isn’t how modding works. Most new games releasing will have some reshades and a trainer, max. Once in a great while you’ll get some nudity. The size of the audience doesn’t change that - most games releasing simply don’t garner much mod support.
By your logic a game like Call of Duty should have a massive modding scene, as the new entry will be newer and have a massive audience, an audience multiple times bigger than any Bethesda game. But no, that’s just not how that works. Hell, even a game like The Witcher 3 only has half the number of mods that Morrowind does.
Also I’m confused as to the point of those links. Are you arguing that gaming has… gotten more popular over the years? Yeah no shit. As I said earlier, numbers going up doesn’t magically guarantee a thriving modding scene.
So if we assume roughly the same market share were playing TES games in both eras (and it is pretty safe to say that Skyrim is a MUCH more mainstream game than Morrowind was…), we would expect at least a 3.5x increase in the amount of mods.
As I went over before, no. Lol absolutely not. I don’t believe that you actually think this could possibly be true. Lets apply your logic to other mainstream games releasing nowadays and see if that logic holds water (hint, it doesn’t).
This comment was truly a trip, thank you.
The reason why he charges does not matter at all. Anyone wanting a service for free is not in the position to demand anything. Would it be nice to get stuff for free? Sure! But demanding free service and badmouthing if you don’t get it? Fuck off.
The game has just launched and the mod had been released and cracked already. This isn’t about making bread, it’s clearly a trivial hack for him to do, not something that requires full time job maintenence.
People spend hundreds of hours modding free of charge, what he does is a joke in comparison if we are talking about lost time that could have been spent earning money. The groundwork was made by Bethesda, AMD and Nvidia.
Remember, the patreon sub is $5/MONTH. This means if you buy 1 month at $5 to download the mod, and the author “conveniently” comes out with an update one month later, you need to subscibe for another $5. So basically it’s a fucking subscription for a god damn dlss 3 mod. You know the author is milking this bullshit to keep subscibers and keep his income flowing. Marty mcfly does the same fucking dogshit with his stupid ass RTGI reshade shaders. Fuck that shit. Those people can go get fucked.
If you want to charge $5 or $10 for your time spent making the mod, fine, whatever. But if you are trying to make it a subscription model then I have ZERO sympathy for you.
Ultimately, the guy is being upfront with his pricing and what he’s asking for. What’s the reason to hate on him? Either it’s worth it at that price or it’s not.
So you’re invalidating the feeling of being upset when something that used to be free (modding games) is no longer free. Modding has always been a free hobby that was run by good-willed pc gamers. Now monetization is fragmenting and ruining the modding experience.
You’re also justifying paying a subsciption on top of a fucking $70 game. Do you rip up a $5 bill every time you take a shit? Try it out. You may enjoy it.
No, I’d just choose not to use it and move on. Or if I’m broke and really wanted it, sure, pirate it. Not act like an entitled brat and whine and moan and it
You must be one of those whales that buys $4k worth of micro transactions. You do you man.
they cant invalidate the feeling of being upset when something that used to be free (modding games) is no longer free
modding games is still free, so your feeling of being upset wasnt valid in the first place
For real. You want it for free? Cool go ahead and make the mod yourself. All the tools are there. Wait, you don’t want to spend your time learning to code? You don’t want to spend your time learning modding tools. Our time is our most finite resource and you get mad when someone asks for something in return for theirs? People are just up their own asses.
The modder also locked the DLSS3 mod behind a paywall, and players also pirated that 🤣
No, DLSS3 was the only one he wanted $5 for.
This reminds me of the McFly ray tracing plugin for ReShade - turns out somebody else has already made an open-source alternative
Marty McFly is a fucking tool for paywalling his mediocre shaders.
Well he managed to snag a sponsorship from Nvidia thanks to his shenanigans. Which probably says more about Nvidia than about the guy, to be honest.
Yea, and the guy STILL has to charge for his fucking mods. That’s even worse.
Piracy is always ethical
So the mod creator deserves nothing for their time and work?
I don’t have a problem with some mods being sold. My issue is when you price it initially for free and THEN decide later to charge money for it. That’s within your rights of course, but don’t expect people to not get pissed off enough to pirate it.
Okay is gamescensor written by actual people, or just some generative learning SEO site? Because wow this is a mess of an article.
The mod replaces the FSR2 upscaling technology included in the game (which is made for AMD graphics cards)
FSR2 works on every major graphics card
a more modern upscaler that is compatible with more recent Nvidia cards.
Wat?
PureDark, who claimed to make more than $40,000
Nope some one else extrapolated that data from a patreon page.
It may be because AMD is “Starfield’s exclusive PC partner” and only supports FSR2 technology at launch that the game only does so.
Wat again?!?
I understand when massive, dlc sized mods are monetized. Not when small ones are.
For example in minecraft, there was a mod with which you could pregenerate your world before making it. The creator decided to gut it and put all the good features behind his patreon.
I mean at the end of the day its the decision of the developer who put time in it… if you’re not happy with that look for another mod or code your own.
Sure I appreciate free mods but we shouldn’t take them for granted.God forbid someone make money from the things they put time into!
ITT: A gross misunderstanding about how mod and DLSS/RTX licencing works.
Folks act like modding is a constitutional right and not expressly allowed within TOS. Guys of Bethesda wanted to go full on piss on the community they could shut all of it MPAA style. They choose to let modders use and monitize their assets because it’s less expensive and harmful then attacking everyone e.g Nintendo. https://documents.bethesda.net/en/terms-of-service
RTX is fully redistributable without modification as long as it’s used on Nvidia hardware.
They choose to do that because the community caries their games. I wouldn’t own a single beth game if they didn’t have mod support.
And? I’m just informing everyone bitching about the legal issues who lack a fundamental understanding of the aforementioned documents.
ITT: Bitching “the old ways were better” user clearly doesn’t understand the hipocricy of charging for mods when devs didn’t pay for access themselves.
What you get to be the only person who profits? Not the companies who made the rest of the fucking game so you can copy and paste some fucking stackoverflow implementation posts?
Dev needs to get real - enjoy that bite in your ass. Fees for thee but not for me
Wat?
This isn’t anything new, there’s some community software locked behind paywalls like patreon already. Doesn’t mean we have to like it though.
Then again, DLSS is an nvidia product, so there’s a legal issue here I think.
DLSS is free to redistribute. https://developer.nvidia.com/downloads/nvidia-rtx-sdks-license-23jan2023pdf#:~:text=Further%2C the DLSS SDK and,DLSS SDK and NGX SDK.
Unless they go crazy like oracle/Java devs are encouraged to use it.
Nah it’s free to use tech, but yes the dev is indeed still charging for something that they themselves could have to pay for but don’t.
Only the mod dev gets to make money, not any of the hundreds of people (if not more) working on the base game.
Come on man it’s fine, charge the little guy, big guy make more money. It’s simple /s
Lazy game devs should release finished optimized products.
How to say you know nothing about game development without saying you know nothing about game (software) development. But want to assert your opinion on it regardless.
It’s corporate profiteering not lazy devs. The devs work their asses off, these aren’t their decisions to make.
It’s like blaming the guy finishing the drywall for design problems with the building. Lazy drywallers, ruining a good office tower, it wouldn’t be leaning if they weren’t so lazy.
The more people defend the lazy game devs, the more crappy half finished games we will get. The reason people need to seek out upscaling at all for Starfield is because the game isn’t optimized. Lazy design.
Or bad resource allocation by the management. If they cut performance development in favour of marketing what a developer can do?
I like that you are so unwilling to learn that you associate an explanation of a field you know nothing about as “defending”
😂😂
Imagine putting a mod that the devs of the game it’s for can take down at any moment if they feel like it.
Imagine being dumb enough to pay for it as well!
