• lawful good – grassy trams
  • neutral good – bicycles
  • chaotic good – rail bicycles
  • lawful neutral – diesel trains
  • true neutral – walking
  • chaotic neutral – parkour
  • lawful evil – airplanes
  • neutral evil – Las Vegas Loop
  • chaotic evil – rolling coal
  • Techranger@infosec.pub
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    l’ll speak up for airplanes, or at least airliners in particular. I concede the point they mostly burn non-renewable fuels, but they make excellent use of the resources. Rhetorically speaking, one can cross half the planet in half a day, for not much money, in a mode of transport that is the safest on the planet (typically an order of magnitude safer than cars as I recall).

    • br3d@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      22
      ·
      1 year ago

      Although don’t forget that “for not much money” is partly because air travel is so subsidised. Fuel tends to be largely untaxed, even though fuel taxes on other modes don’t really cover the externalities

    • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      1 year ago

      In terms of fuel per passenger unit of distance, air travel is very efficient, the reason why there are so many emissions is the amount of distance you can travel.

      Fuel makes up a significant amount of the aircraft’s weight at takeoff on long haul flights.

    • zoe @infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      aerial transport is justified for intercontinental transport, but shouldnt be adopted when land travel is possible

      • grue@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Especially on middle-distance routes where land transport would be faster (considering that airports can’t be downtown like train stations can be, the delays associated with airport security, etc.) if the rail infrastructure were decent.

    • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Yeah, that’s why I put them in lawful. If we can get them to be more sustainable (maybe green hydrogen fuel), then they’d basically just be super fast and super safe sky buses, whereas they’re currently extremely polluting sky buses.

    • someguy7734206@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      If I recall correctly, aren’t high speed trains the safest? At the very least, I recall that the Shinkansen has never had a single safety incident in its entire history, and as for the TGV, there have been a few derailments and a terrorist attack.

    • Kilgore Trout@feddit.it
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      We should switch to more coscentious standards. Air travel is a commodity. We must avoid it as much as possible.

  • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    After figuring in all the time it takes to earn enough to pay for a car, time spent maintaining it and gasing up, as well as the actual time spent driving, you still only get about 4 miles per man hour.

    True neutral is the truth.

    • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      I wonder if there’s data out there on life expectancy for people who walk a lot vs those who drive everywhere. I bet the miles per man hour would go down even further if you factor in years of life lost from being sedentary behind the wheel instead of walking.

    • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      The running cost of a vehicle is less than a dollar per KM, if you buy second hand you’re not losing much money to depreciation, and it takes me an hour to do an oil change, which I do every ten thousand KM.

      Where the hell did these figures come from?

      • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I saw them around here somewhere. I haven’t bothered to run them personally, but after ditching my car and WFH, suddenly I can afford to support my wife and child while they both go to school - by way of explaining why I haven’t put the assertion under a microscope.

        Couldn’t conjure up the source I got it from though. After some random figures looked up and shitty napkin math, I would only be able to argue for about 22 miles per Mhour for the average American.

    • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Wow, that’s interesting! Do you have a source (or if you calculated it yourself, can you share the calculations)?

    • zoe @infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      the problem isn’t the car, but the salary, which is basically straight theft, and that is eating on the Mh (man-hour). if one were paid twice as much, that would translate to 8 mile per Mh, also imagine there were one seat cars, instead of paying for a 5 seat car, u would save at least on half as much of the car cost ( also a 1L for 100km engine locked at 90km/h for speed is also logical), which translates to 16 miles per Mh, so on and so forth…also taxing the rich and subsidizing public facilities will extend Mhours way more…

      • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        You’re right. For cars to make sense in financial terms, all we need is a mulligan on the last several decades of economic policy.

        • zoe @infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          if u want to transport friends and whatnot, then dont come complaining about car cost…i was just trying to optimize car use cases. sure u wanna go camping ? might as well buy a AWD car for a trip per year and pay for the fuel of daily work commute. might as well buy two cars in this regard…if only public transport was that reliable, and also wages were fair…

          • Ilovethebomb@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            The difference in fuel use between a two wheel drive and AWD vehicle is negligible, you might as well have an AWD. Especially if you don’t commute in your own car.

            • zoe @infosec.pub
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              u would think a 1L gasoline engine with 86Nm of torque would serve awd in rugged terrain ? unless u live in the us, where even front wheel’s are run by 2 liter diesel, at 360Nm

  • Album@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Fun facts:

    • The GO Train pictured in your lawful neutral served 35,234,400 passengers in 2022 and covers 526km connecting 27 cities (rough count).
    • The old diesel-electric fleet was replaced for higher efficiency/lower emission units about a decade ago and these models are now being converted into even lower emission units.
    • In the next decade a large portion of tracks will be electrified.
    • Gatekeeping mass transit is weird
  • ericbomb@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    1 year ago

    Okay but I want chaotic good as an option because cars wouldn’t hit me there and my bike lane wouldn’t just turn into a turn lane randomly.

  • 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Arguing against the lawful good because while all that vegetation is great for pictures the only thought in my mind seeing that is ‘fire’.

    • Pseu@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      They’re trams in the city, so relatively slow. Live and maintained vegetation has too much water to burn: boiling away the water takes more energy than the fuel provides.

      It’s probably also got those pop-up sprinklers, so if a fire does happen, you just turn on the water.

      • 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 year ago

        Covering a city in tram lines and sprinkler systems so you can keep up a fairy tale aesthetic with more grass isn’t practical. Just do gravel like the train lines and accept that keeping it pretty would be an irresponsible use of water in our increasingly frequent droughts.

        • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          1 year ago

          It completely depends on the region, though. The grassy tram pic is from Helsinki, which is a plenty moist region that I think is generally predicted to get more rain with climate change. Sustainable urban design should be tailored to the context.

    • Zink@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      That vegetation is pretty green and not primed for a fire.

      Plus we already have cars with tanks full of gasoline driving near green areas in cities.

      • 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Near but not over and that picture is of an ideal scenario, not a realistic one even if we ignore climate change.

        • Zink@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Well if this helps instead, people park on their yards every day with hot exhausts and catalytic converters. And some of us with old gravel driveways have a little grass right where we’re actually supposed to park, lol.

          But yeah you’re right that when they decided to make that route so nice and green, they signed up for regular maintenance!