• Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    6 months ago

    This is why good teams are essential. One person to do all the bullshitting, and the rest of the team to actually get stuff done while the bullshitter deflects all the other bullshitters.

    • Chadus_Maximus@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Ok so what happens when the bullshitter gets all the recognition and nobody believes you when you try to prove otherwise? Document and take legal action?

    • Beetschnapps@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      PROVIDED the bullshitter doesn’t turn inward. A PM with those skills unleashed on the team is hell, and is guaranteed to drive talent away.

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 months ago

      “Bullshitting” is an essential skill, not a distraction. The greatest idea in the world is meaningless if nobody knows about it.

      Marketing, scmoozing, etc gets a bad rep. But no matter how good your output, product, research, etc is, it has very little value or impact if people don’t get on board.

      If you can’t play the game, team up with someone who can. And don’t forget that while that schmoozer may not have your technical skills, they have a skillset you do not.

      It wasn’t Woz or Jobs. It was both.

        • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          Jobs was an asshole.

          Also, he got shit done. He wasn’t a technical genius, but he and the team he built could pitch the shit out of products. Apple’s value has rarely been in its technical superiority, but in branding.

          • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            “Asshole” is the word for a guy who likes to cut people off in traffic. I think there’s probably a more appropriate word for someone who emotionally manipulates you over the course of years so you’re continually a nervous wreck and can be destroyed any time it’s convenient for him. Seriously if you haven’t watched the interview I linked at least look at the first couple of minutes.

            And at the end of the day, who did this behavior actually benefit? Steve helped make Apple a lot of money, sure, but where did most of that money go? It didn’t go to the employees he abused, that’s for sure. But maybe Apple products ended up benefitting society as a whole, and without Steve we wouldn’t have had that? Well you already said that more often than not Apple’s success didn’t have anything to do with technical superiority.

            The fact that people like this (Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, etc) often head successful companies isn’t an example of how beneficial they are, it’s an example of how broken our system is.

            • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              6 months ago

              It shows how important having a charismatic person is to make any venture a success. We’re all humans with limited time on the earth. We can’t possibly experience everything. All we see and do is filtered out of necessity. A charismatic advocate of a product/movement/idea can get people to pay attention.

              The best musician in history is probably unknown because they didn’t have a good manager/agent.

              The greatest painting ever made was probably thrown away because nobody ever knew about it.

              Hype men are necessary.

              • morrowind@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                ok, everyone has hype men now. Everyone is charismatic now. Now what, will the greatest be found? We’re just back to square one.

              • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                6 months ago

                In my personal experience I’ve had to go out of my way to find every quality product I’ve ever purchased, from dishwasher detergent to heat pumps, and none of them were the ones with the highest advertising budgets. You’re right that we all have limited time and can’t possibly evaluate every single thing that exists, but hype men don’t help with that. The professional liars and manipulators that work in advertising only add to the noise and make it take longer to arrive at a conclusion. For example the fact that there are the 12 different brands of space heaters that come in different sizes and shapes and at different price points despite all performing the exact same way. It’s like that with literally everything, from bar soap, to maple syrup, to sunscreen.

                I think this way because I am autistic. I honestly cannot imagine feeling the need for hype men. The phrase “you need hype men” sounds to me like “you need your abuser, you cannot live without them”.

                Something like 35% of autistic people attempt suicide because of what the original post describes (and not just in science, but in every aspect of the world). And yeah, I think if I had to work for someone like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk I would as well.