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Greed. Get ready because they’re coming for free public k-12 next.
Nah. They just want to cut funding, not cut it completely. They need the dumb kids to grow up to be dumb workers and dumb voters. And to keep their own children in private schools to continue to rule over the poors.
Ah, but cutting it completely means they could potentially go back to child labour, and they’ve already been trying to set the ground work for it
You must live in a state where charter schools aren’t part of normal political discourse. It is happening, and it is what they’re striving for. They want the private schools, yes, but the mostly want unregulated for-profit religious charter schools where there is no oversight in what kids are taught (or if they’re taught)
My school was expensive but was marketed as cheaper. It was cheaper through scholarship, factored in Pell grants and did not comsider the extra fees from bureaucracy.
The problem is that when you try to work while paying for school the grants go down and you pay more and still struggle.
While you do this you see your school build a sports stadium and see host extravagant dinners with business clients. You see how much the president or dean makes and how much the professors make.
I gave up and transferred to a non-profit university and the experience was night and day. It was affordable and the staff worked for you.
Look down at community colleges all day but I work with people doing the same job making the same pay (know your rights) but i don’t have 35 years of debt.
I got into University - they wanted $8,000/semester. Community College across the street offered 4 year degrees for $1200/semester.
Holy shit dude, for profits are fuckin terrible. Although, that being said, I don’t know of any for-profits that have sports teams or large stadiums.
And I would also add that academia doesn’t really pay that well, at least for professors. They could make much more in industry in a lot of cases
Any private university is for profit, they just don’t explicitly say it.
Because there is no cap on student loans for the most part. Kids who just finished high school are sold on the concept of these loans without knowing what they are really getting into.
If a guy can’t legally buy a beer, then they should not legally be allowed to sign up for 6 figure loans either
Most colleges are just sports franchises that just have higher education as a side hustle these days.
It all started when they outlawed bankruptcy discharging student loans. Cry and cry over “Lawyers will graduate from college then immediately declare bankruptcy on $5000 loans!”. Then, when they captured the students in inescapable debt, convinced everyone that college was the answer, and then Sallie May being put in charge of defaulted loans… being paid to collect… Federally guaranteed money… It’s like getting paid to get paid, perfect racket!
People finding out why religions banned usury
And back then y’all could just move like 40 miles and become a whole other ass person. Now you’re tracked literally around the entire globe forever.
I have accomplished very little in my life.
I have pissed off innumerable people, been ostracized, ghosted, fired, disowned, discarded, and deserved all of it.
I have never lived up to my potential. I’ve got less than zero ambition.
I have been a historically awful husband and/or boyfriend.
But I accomplished one thing:
I got my daughter through college with no debt.
While she did the work to get admitted and slog through the classes and deal with the remote classroom bullshit of the COVID era, I’m proud that I was able to pull my shit together just long enough to keep writing those godforsaken checks so she will never know the struggle of being shackled to a lifetime of crippling debt.
I did one good thing in this lifetime, and because it gave her opportunity, it was all worth it.
It’s stories like this that make me thankful that my children have EU citizenship and will never have to struggle through college debt and neither will we as their parents.
It’s comments like this that make me happy i didn’t have kids (as a usa citizen)
And people who actually do most of the work (aka grad students) are still not getting a living wage.
Support striking grad workers everyone! Search for the currently striking school, and donate to their strike fund if you can: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=support+grad+worker+strike&ia=web
That’s actually highly variable. Some schools have come a long way in that regard
AFAIK there is no school paying a living wage (based on MIT living wage calculator) to all their grad student yet, at least not in most major cities.
The grad workers union of JHU has just won a wage that is somewhat close to living wage, but not there yet.
Depends if you factor all the free credits in ig
The problem is that most grad students are not taking classes after the first two years, and focus solely on research. Many with masters will finish with classes even sooner.
Then it doesn’t make sense to factor in the tuition for most PhD.
Plus, I am referring to living wages calculated without factoring in any educational cost or child care cost. If they are included, the living wage will be much higher.
How Did This Happen?
College loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Simple as that.
With lenders knowing that the government will make sure they get paid, they’re happy to loan out any amount of money to anyone regardless of credit worthiness, because they take on literally zero risk.
Then colleges realize the same, and jack up their prices in turn. The feedback loop brings us to where we are today. There is no market (or other) force putting any downward pressure on tuition costs, at all. This is the inevitable result.
College loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Simple as that.
Yes Biden is basically running on the idea of solving a lot of the problems he created. He spent most of his life in government. Those of us who are informed came to terms with that in 2020
Not so much “came to terms” with it as much as “this dumb motherfucker is the only way we escape Trump. I hate him and his policies but I’ll vote for him I fucking guess.” Just like where we are now, but now many are even more pissed because it was already supposed to be just one term of a lesser evil before we’d have new options. Now goal posts are being moved and we all have to do it AGAIN for an asshole like Joe Biden who does not deserve it.
Why can’t these old fuckers just die already?
Ronald Reagan. That’s how this happened.
Not that simple. This got started before he took office, and it culminated long after he was out of office. Way more than one person is to blame.
https://www.tateesq.com/learn/student-loan-bankruptcy-law-history
Student loans first became nondischargeable in bankruptcy in 1976 due to an amendment in the Higher Education Act. Section 439A of this act made student loan debt non-dischargeable until five years after the start of the repayment period, except in cases of undue hardship. Over time, laws were tweaked and widened to reinforce this limitation.
This got started when he went after Berkeley as the candidate for governor of California, then became worse when he was governor, then other governors copied his playbook, then laws were enacted to roll it nationwide, then got worse when he became president. Prior to Reagan becoming governor of California all state universities were free for residents in California. Reagan hated this because it led to poor minorities being able to get an education, and he hated nothing more than he hated poor minorities.
You listened to this week’s Behind the Bastards too?
Maybe stop paying the coaches so much?
I agree, but that ain’t gonna fix $1.7 trillion in student loan debt.
Eat the rich.
Americans with income over $74,000 hold about 60% of the total public student loan debt
The holders of college debt are, relatively speaking, the rich in this scenario, lol. They’re sure a lot richer than all the taxpayers who never went to college, who will be the primary ones footing the bill for any college debt forgiveness that occurs.
$74K while they’re paying off student loans isn’t anything close to rich. Why are taxpayers who didn’t go to college footing the bill, is someone failing to make corporations and billionaires pay their fair share?
$74K while they’re paying off student loans isn’t anything close to rich.
It is compared to those not in college, and even moreso as time goes on–college grads make a million more over their lives than others.
Why are taxpayers who didn’t go to college footing the bill, is someone failing to make corporations and billionaires pay their fair share?
There’s no provision preventing the ~85% of the population who never went to college from having to pay, is there? No one’s handing only the even richer minority a bill for it.
Just like how income tax was first proposed as something only the rich would pay, but in reality the middle class pays the majority of it, this is no different.
This is such an idiotic take. It’s clear that you just want to rile people up with fear-driven rhetoric. “They’re stealing from you!” That kind of thing works with your you and your pals but not on people who understand the division in the class war waged against us doesn’t start at $74k while under a mountain of debt.
I have to pay taxes which go to government services I don’t always use. Welcome to society. That’s how it works.
By the way, could you link me to where you were screeching and whining about PPP loan forgiveness? I have a theory to test.
This is such an idiotic take.
It’s not a “take”, it’s a fact.
If you seriously think that NONE of the taxpayer money being used to forgive student loans is coming from the 85% of the non-college taxpaying population, and ALL of it is being paid for by the ultra-wealthy/billionaires, you’re just delusional.
I have to pay taxes which go to government services I don’t always use. Welcome to society. That’s how it works.
So first it’s adamantly denying that the non-college majority will be paying forgiven college students’ loans, and now it’s “actually, it’s good that they do”, lol.
Student loan forgiveness is regressive, period. It’s a wealth transfer from poorer to richer.
By the way, could you link me to where you were screeching and whining
Really pathetic attempt to devalue my factual statements. Ideologue tactics 101.
about PPP loan forgiveness?
All voluntary loans should be paid back by the borrower, and no taxpayer-funded forgiveness should exist. If anything, perhaps bring the loan to 0% interest, though that’s arguably still unfair to the lender.
I bet you really thought that was a gotcha, huh? I’m not one of your stupid stereotype boogeymen, stop pretending you know me.
We do know you. You are a clown pretending that student loan forgiveness is transferring wealth from the poor to the wealthy. You want to ensure education remains unavailable for poor people so the only opportunities they have are trades.
You want to pretend that paying taxes into the government means they’re funding these directly. Delusional. You cannot even read.
I wish they still taught basic civics in schools. Then people wouldn’t have to explain the basics to you.
No, I don’t want you pretending you’re against PPP forgiveness now, I want to see where you are grumpy enough about it at the time to complain about it. It’s easy for fellows like you to be consistent for a few hours at a time.
pretending that student loan forgiveness is transferring wealth from the poor to the wealthy.
Just because it’s not the poorEST to the wealthiEST doesn’t mean it’s not regressive.
It is–the recipients of the monetary handout are receiving it primarily from those who are poorer than them on average. The majority of people whose tax money will be paying this forgiveness, already have less wealth than those getting it.
These are objective facts.
Excluding the value of education from a calculation of net worth while including debt used to finance that education is like measuring a homeowner’s wealth by subtracting their mortgage but ignoring the value of the home itself. You’d find that homeowners were poorer than renters, and that people living in mansions were the poorest members of society.
That’s clearly wrong, yet advocates for debt forgiveness make the same mistake, arguing that recent college graduates with student debt have negative wealth and are thus worse off than otherwise similar Americans who have not gone to college. Consider that the median doctor graduating from medical school in 2017 or 2018 owed $171,000 in student debt, according to the College Scorecard, the median MBA owed $46,000, the median borrower with a BA in business $25,000, and the median AA degree holder in business $18,000. The implied conclusion is that doctors are the worst-off individuals, those with the two-year AA degrees are doing far better, and richest of all are those who never went to college.
You want to pretend that paying taxes into the government means they’re funding these directly.
The government does not spend its tax revenue depending on which class of people paid those particular dollars of tax. There is zero reason to think the distribution will be any different than anything else.
If the top 1% pays 45%, the middle class pays 40%, and the lower class 15% (random numbers, not themselves relevant to the point), then every single thing the government pays for, with tax money, is 45% funded by the 1%, 40% funded by the middle class, and 15% funded by the lower class.
Unless some provision is added that there will be a tax hike ONLY on those with more wealth than the recipients of the handout, that is the case.
And people who pay taxes and never went to college should absolutely NOT be on the hook for a penny of richER people’s loans.
No, I don’t want you pretending you’re against PPP forgiveness now
This is getting sad now. Constantly saying I’m “pretending” to have certain values like you know fucking anything, lmao. It must be a simple life indeed to never have to take on the mental burden of assessing people as individuals instead of members of your pre-built stereotype-driven collectives.
I came up with a plan to lower college tuition years ago while tripping. It starts with the decriminalization of all drugs. And to prevent gangs and what not from profiting colleges will get the exclusive privilege of making and selling all drugs. Drug proceeds would be split between lowering tuition, setting up more college ran centers, and rehabilitation of drug users outside the colleges programs. With a small percentage allowed for the college to profit.
For the program itself, i would have the colleges set up drug manufacturing classes which should benefit students in other chemist and medical fields so it should draw in quite a few people. With the drugs made they then would be sold by college ran businesses whicj could also employ students to have on the job experience and to keep more money in the colleges sphere of influence.
At these centers where drugs are sold, there will also be areas for people to partake in the more dangerous drugs, which should be inheritly safer now that its not being tainted with other nonsense. There would be medical students watching and taking care of their patients making another facet of experience that will help in future jobs.
With all this taking place in the college system, and with plenty of opportunities to view patients, it should be easy to spot people who are in a real bad place that would benefit from health and life counseling. So for the people in need of help, counselors will approach giving an offer to participate in a program to train psychology students that comes with a heavy discount for their drugs while in the program.
My whole idea had several beneficial aspects for all of the country.
Lower colleges tuition
Raising the educational level of general poplus
Lower drug dependencies rates
Lower crime rates
Getting people help who need it
Reduction of drug over doses
Less burdens on are justice system clogged up with drug related crimes
Hampering outside nations who push dirty cheap drugs into our country
Extra tax money
Etc
Idk if anyone has any comments on my wistful thinking, but im open to revisions of my plan.
TLDR: Decrimnalize drugs and make collegese create dispense and sell said drugs to fund the well being of our society.
Jesus fucking christ this is the stupidest shit with the purest potential. I’ve never loved and hated anything so equally. I’m left completely indifferent.
You’re ambivalent not indifferent.
People are willing to pay it, therefore they will charge it.
We badly need people in the skilled trades. The jobs pay well, are in high demand, and don’t require you go go into massive college debt.
They also are not hiring, or require someone to help you get through the door, just like everything else these days. Telling people to do trade work is incredibly tone-deaf.
Which trades are you referring to?
I live close by to a community college that allows basically anyone to fairly quickly (1-2 yrs) get into a trade. I know several people who did. It’s not “easy” in the sense that yeah, you’re still learning a whole fucking skillset and trying to land your first adult job, but it’s definitely… extremely doable…?
Exactly. Presenting people with real solutions to their problems is important and getting into a well paying trade job is a solution the average worker can achieve if they so choose.
The government also made huge student loans widely available. So government tried to narrow the wealth gap. In response, colleges just raised their prices, and students were forced to take out bigger and bigger loans.
Yep. You hand out tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to people who haven’t yet had to balance a bank account and it’s going to get spent en-mass. Why go to a trade school or a community college when you can go to [insert most expensive school that accepted you]?
A potential solution here is to cap the maximum amount of loan that is immune to bankruptcy discharge. This will have the effect of depressing the total amount of loans an average student has access to and force colleges to follow suit if they want to see continued enrollment.
