https://archive.li/Z0m5m [https://archive.li/Z0m5m] > The Russian commander of
the “Vostok” Battalion fighting in southern Ukraine said on Thursday that
Ukraine will not be defeated and suggested that Russia freeze the war along
current frontlines. > Alexander Khodakovsky made the candid concession yesterday
on his Telegram channel after Russian forces, including his own troops, were
devastatingly defeated by Ukrainian marines earlier this week at Urozhaine in
the Zaporizhzhia-Donetsk regional border area. > “Can we bring down Ukraine
militarily? Now and in the near future, no,” Khodakovsky, a former official of
the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, said yesterday. > “When I talk to
myself about our destiny in this war, I mean that we will not crawl forward,
like the [Ukrainians], turning everything into [destroyed] Bakhmuts in our path.
And, I do not foresee the easy occupation of cities,” he said.
why the people of the donbas didn’t appeal to the UN to establish independence
They did. No country outside of South Ossetia, itself an unrecognized country, recognized their independence. Sadly not even Cuba did when specifically asked. Yes that means Russia also didn’t. Despite significant internal pressure to do that (most significantly, by the communist party), Putin and Russian government hoped for peaceful resolution by the Minsk agreements. This turned out to be mistake since both west and Ukraine never intended to honor those agreements but used them to arm up Ukraine. Between 2014 and 2022 international situation changed significantly though, Ukraine buildup for the all out invasion of Donbas finally forced Russian govt to decide, either join the war or just watch as Donbas is massacred (and potentially risk political instablity in crucial time since it would be incredibly unpopular move which could easily lead to lose nationalist support for govt).
I can’t see why Russia committed mass murder on civilian population.
They didn’t. Civilian losses are very low in that war, UN estimated it for around 10000 dead (for both sides). Compare it to when US Shock and Awe any country and kill milllions. Russia is incredibly restrained as far as the modern warfare goes.
Expected? By whom? Liberals seems to expect millions because they as usual projected the US army standard. I said America not because some kind of dreaded whataboutism or deflections, i used that example because as foremost warmonger on the planet they do set up the standard of contemporary warfare, which is to bomb everything, drone weddings, burn cities with white phosphorus, poison the earth and people with defoliants and depleted uranium, drop millions of bombs that kill people even decades later… yet no one else except their puppets seem to even want to get close to that standard. And look, they are sending the same shit to Ukraine.
Why are you say anything about justification now? I was rebuking your argument that Russians committed mass murder in Ukraine, which they didn’t and you agreed saying the numbers were expected, but you suddenly moved into some kind of moral argument for some reason.
Now i don’t agree with the expectations, because you still didn’t said who expected it and from reading of nearly all liberal articles about those numbers they not only expect much more but are even making them up contrary to the apparently most trustworthy assessments.
Nakba is comparable in terms of numbers of victims and lenght of war but the military forces were much lower than the ones in Ukraine and intensity of the war was also much lower - just compare the ratio of military to civilian losses.
Bucha is a red herring. The event was thoroughly investigated the very day after it was suddenly mediatized, and two pieces of evidence stick out:
The mayor of Bucha, when UA retook control of the city, made no reference to any mass murders or anything. He certainly would have mentioned it if he knew about it.
Videos were filmed shortly (a day or two) also before UA retook the city, and there were no bodies in the streets.
These civilians were killed by Ukraine. They didn’t publicize it right after they retook the city, it took them a few days to talk about it – plenty of time to commit a massacre. There’s more inconsistencies but these are the two big ones to me. Like some people raised the problem that the bodies looked very fresh (and that nobody talked about the massacre online before UA retook the city), when the official narrative was that the massacre was committed a month before.
edit: as for mass graves, one of them I believe to have been made by Ukraine. I couldn’t tell you which one exactly though at this time, but Esha K. talked about it on twitter. Russia had made proper graves and even brought UA POWs to witness the processions. They filmed everything and that’s why I mentioned Esha, she has the video on her twitter somewhere. They had also offered to send the bodies to Ukraine for proper burial, which Ukraine refused. So they buried these soldiers themselves. Ukraine then opened the graves and threw the bodies in a mass grave to once again pin something on Russia.
Remember that Ukraine has committed verifiable war crimes (they boast about them) in just the first months of the war, I posted about this before trying to keep track of them.
There was another red herring, a woman supposedly wearing nail polish, which NAFO trolls jumped on to claim she was a civilian, but there are women in the UA army and they’re allowed to wear nail polish like you don’t stop wearing it just because you’re a soldier. So it doesn’t mean anything.
The nyt(yea I know) deep dive convinced me at least a large part of killings were carried out by Russian soldiers. Tying phones, street cameras and other evidence to specific deaths was fairly exhaustive. It seems a case of revenge killing and is still a war crime. Massacres do happen and soldiers who commit them should be prosecuted, although I doubt the nyt would spend the hours to do this and call for the prosecutions on Americans for the millions who died in the middle east.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/21/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-massacre-victims.html
You can say well the Ukrainian push for regular people to fight back or whatever leads to things like this and you can be right. I don’t think that gets these soldiers off the hook.
I’m reading through it through firefox’s reader to bypass the paywall and most of their stories are conjecture (I read most of them and skipped the rest). Even worse, they’re just that: stories. They have no dates attached, just a name, age, and “was never seen again”. I don’t doubt these people were in Bucha in March, but beyond that the NYT is not tying them to the massacre itself. Just that they were in the fighting. Like there’s telegrams screencaps saying “this person was killed march 5 can you help me move their body” but the message itself isn’t dated, very amateur.
NYT is the journal that has been cheering for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan for decades, they have a very high bar to clear if they want to be taken at face value.
The part about how they reported this is word salad, it’s the exact same method Buzzfeed used to find the “Uyghur concentration camps” that were actually factories and schools: google maps and their “sources”
There are literally videos of Russian bmps shooting people in the article I linked, maybe the ad block is blocking it. The video done with the article maybe presents it in a more digestible format.
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They did. No country outside of South Ossetia, itself an unrecognized country, recognized their independence. Sadly not even Cuba did when specifically asked. Yes that means Russia also didn’t. Despite significant internal pressure to do that (most significantly, by the communist party), Putin and Russian government hoped for peaceful resolution by the Minsk agreements. This turned out to be mistake since both west and Ukraine never intended to honor those agreements but used them to arm up Ukraine. Between 2014 and 2022 international situation changed significantly though, Ukraine buildup for the all out invasion of Donbas finally forced Russian govt to decide, either join the war or just watch as Donbas is massacred (and potentially risk political instablity in crucial time since it would be incredibly unpopular move which could easily lead to lose nationalist support for govt).
deleted by creator
They didn’t. Civilian losses are very low in that war, UN estimated it for around 10000 dead (for both sides). Compare it to when US Shock and Awe any country and kill milllions. Russia is incredibly restrained as far as the modern warfare goes.
deleted by creator
Expected? By whom? Liberals seems to expect millions because they as usual projected the US army standard. I said America not because some kind of dreaded whataboutism or deflections, i used that example because as foremost warmonger on the planet they do set up the standard of contemporary warfare, which is to bomb everything, drone weddings, burn cities with white phosphorus, poison the earth and people with defoliants and depleted uranium, drop millions of bombs that kill people even decades later… yet no one else except their puppets seem to even want to get close to that standard. And look, they are sending the same shit to Ukraine.
deleted by creator
Why are you say anything about justification now? I was rebuking your argument that Russians committed mass murder in Ukraine, which they didn’t and you agreed saying the numbers were expected, but you suddenly moved into some kind of moral argument for some reason.
Now i don’t agree with the expectations, because you still didn’t said who expected it and from reading of nearly all liberal articles about those numbers they not only expect much more but are even making them up contrary to the apparently most trustworthy assessments.
Nakba is comparable in terms of numbers of victims and lenght of war but the military forces were much lower than the ones in Ukraine and intensity of the war was also much lower - just compare the ratio of military to civilian losses.
deleted by creator
Bucha is a red herring. The event was thoroughly investigated the very day after it was suddenly mediatized, and two pieces of evidence stick out:
These civilians were killed by Ukraine. They didn’t publicize it right after they retook the city, it took them a few days to talk about it – plenty of time to commit a massacre. There’s more inconsistencies but these are the two big ones to me. Like some people raised the problem that the bodies looked very fresh (and that nobody talked about the massacre online before UA retook the city), when the official narrative was that the massacre was committed a month before.
edit: as for mass graves, one of them I believe to have been made by Ukraine. I couldn’t tell you which one exactly though at this time, but Esha K. talked about it on twitter. Russia had made proper graves and even brought UA POWs to witness the processions. They filmed everything and that’s why I mentioned Esha, she has the video on her twitter somewhere. They had also offered to send the bodies to Ukraine for proper burial, which Ukraine refused. So they buried these soldiers themselves. Ukraine then opened the graves and threw the bodies in a mass grave to once again pin something on Russia.
Remember that Ukraine has committed verifiable war crimes (they boast about them) in just the first months of the war, I posted about this before trying to keep track of them.
There was another red herring, a woman supposedly wearing nail polish, which NAFO trolls jumped on to claim she was a civilian, but there are women in the UA army and they’re allowed to wear nail polish like you don’t stop wearing it just because you’re a soldier. So it doesn’t mean anything.
The nyt(yea I know) deep dive convinced me at least a large part of killings were carried out by Russian soldiers. Tying phones, street cameras and other evidence to specific deaths was fairly exhaustive. It seems a case of revenge killing and is still a war crime. Massacres do happen and soldiers who commit them should be prosecuted, although I doubt the nyt would spend the hours to do this and call for the prosecutions on Americans for the millions who died in the middle east. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/21/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-massacre-victims.html
You can say well the Ukrainian push for regular people to fight back or whatever leads to things like this and you can be right. I don’t think that gets these soldiers off the hook.
I’m reading through it through firefox’s reader to bypass the paywall and most of their stories are conjecture (I read most of them and skipped the rest). Even worse, they’re just that: stories. They have no dates attached, just a name, age, and “was never seen again”. I don’t doubt these people were in Bucha in March, but beyond that the NYT is not tying them to the massacre itself. Just that they were in the fighting. Like there’s telegrams screencaps saying “this person was killed march 5 can you help me move their body” but the message itself isn’t dated, very amateur.
NYT is the journal that has been cheering for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan for decades, they have a very high bar to clear if they want to be taken at face value.
The part about how they reported this is word salad, it’s the exact same method Buzzfeed used to find the “Uyghur concentration camps” that were actually factories and schools: google maps and their “sources”
There are literally videos of Russian bmps shooting people in the article I linked, maybe the ad block is blocking it. The video done with the article maybe presents it in a more digestible format.
Again nsfl bc dead bodies ect https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/europe/100000008299178/ukraine-bucha-russia-massacre-video.html