Please do not say anything hateful to the Lemmy.ml admins or the developers. Before commenting on this thread, please read the post completely.
We (ani.social) have been defederated from Lemmy.ml a few hours ago presumably for the reason of being “full of CSAM” which I disagree.
What happened?
The Lemmy developers recently launched the new redesigned join-lemmy.org webpage which provides information about Lemmy and a list of servers that people can join. The redesign looks great! It details a lot of new and useful stuff such as a categorized server list and mobile apps. However, I noticed that our instance (ani.social) was not in the list despite previously being there before the redesign.
After looking through the joinlemmy-site code, I discovered that ani.social was added to the “excluded” list in a commit a few weeks ago. I thought that this was a mistake so I made a pull request to remove us from the excluded list (and also to add our instance’s category and language).
Unfortunately, the pull request was closed with a comment that reads “No, that is full of CSAM”. The thread was locked so I couldn’t reply. I tried to reach out to the developers via Matrix, politely explaining that ani.social has a content policy rule against CSAM which reads:
- Do not submit content depicting a child (both real and virtual) engaged or involved in explicit sexual activities. A child is defined as a person who is under 18 years old; or a person, regardless of age, who is presented, depicted or portrayed as under 18 years old.
Unfortunately, my invitation was rejected and I did not hear back from them.
Shortly after, I discovered that Lemmy.ml had defederated from ani.social. The last post ani.social received from Lemmy.ml was just after the pull request was closed.
What does this mean?
This means that no user from ani.social can interact with communities from Lemmy.ml and vice versa. This affects those who subscribe to communities from that instance.
This also affects the anime community on Lemmy as a whole because the biggest anime discussion community resides on Lemmy.ml (!anime@lemmy.ml) in which their episode discussion bot, @shinobu@ani.social, is hosted here. It’s very concerning that as an anime-themed instance, we’re now completely disconnected from this community and other related communities.
This also affects ani.social in the long run as our exclusion from the join-lemmy.org webpage will reduce our visibility. The exclusion from join-lemmy.org and defederation from Lemmy.ml may also prompt other instance admins to defederate from us. Generally, ani.social will be seen in a very bad light.
As the admin of ani.social, I genuinely feel heartbroken after what had happened. Not only do I feel like I’m doing a poor job of building ani.social but I also feel like I’ve disrespected the work of the Lemmy developers. I really apologize to those who are affected by this. I hope that this is just a misunderstanding and I will do my best to resolve this problem.
As the admin of ani.social, I genuinely feel heartbroken after what had happened. Not only do I feel like I’m doing a poor job of building ani.social but I also feel like I’ve disrespected the work of the Lemmy developers.
You shouldn’t take this personally. The lead lemmy devs, nutomic and dessalines, are completely unhinged redfash. In addition to lemmy.ml, they also own lemmygrad.ml, the completely mask-off tankie instance. Tankies often have a weird hatred of anime fans, which is likely what inspired the defederation. In any case, they were never going to hear you out.
Nutomic and dessalines have a habit of engaging in this kind of self-marginalizing petty tyrant behavior, and many people avoid them and lemmy.ml because of their authoritarian, genocidal politics. While this is unfortunate overall, it does provide a fair amount of incentive to fork the project, and should provide a significant boost to any competent fork. Nutomic and dessalines aren’t exactly brilliant programmers or project managers, and their presence is more of a hindrance than a help at this point.
Nutomic and dessalines aren’t exactly brilliant programmers or project managers, and their presence is more of a hindrance than a help at this point.
Nutomic and dessalines aren’t exactly brilliant programmers or project managers, and their presence is more of a hindrance than a help at this point.
from what position are you saying this from?
Sure, they have controversial political views but they’ve contributed so much to making an open social platform, and I don’t think it’s fair to disregard their efforts like this.
I truly think FOSS software is one of the few fields where different people with different backgrounds and views can contribute their opinions, and it’s sad seeing posts like this.
To be clear, I’m not saying that they’re bad programmers, or that their code contributions are harmful. They’d probably be fine as contributors, but having them in charge is significantly detrimental.
In general, ideological authoritarians should be kept away from even the most minor positions of power, whether they be tankies, nazis, theocrats, or what have you. Even disregarding the potential harms that they seek to inflict on the world, they’re just constitutionally incapable of handling these roles well.
I’m confident that the threadiverse will eventually route around this particular damage, it’s just a question of how long it will take, and how much our momentum is impeded in the meantime.
different people with different backgrounds and views can contribute their opinions
Care to elaborate? Sure, I’m all for tolerance, but certain opinions shouldn’t remotely be entertained.
You don’t have to apologize for this, and you’re doing great at managing this instance.
It’s not you, it’s them. Frankly, the sooner the Lemmyverse decentralizes away from those awful devs the better. They’re the main reason I went with a kbin instance as my home instance.
I wouldn’t be upset over this, since the lemmy.ml admins’ moral compass is completely fucked up to begin with. For instance, they’re working with another tankie lead dev who literally called multiple times to murder Israeli civilians by saying stuff like “all Israeli civilians are valid targets”, “there are no civilians in Israel” or “anything that moves and isn’t Palestinian is a valid target” (not even paraphrasing here), and they’re talking about hiring him with the donations, meaning they implicitly condone what he said. People who called them out for being extremists were right.
I recall a post on another instance I wanna say about a month ago where there was a big defed list with a bunch of instances erroneoussly marked for CSAM or extremist content. Big lists like that can have malicious actors fuck with the list for whatever reason, and that can poison the well later down the line for others.
It’s possible this instance was flagged as bad by someone with a dislike of anime for whatever reason and now it’s being treated as fact rather than actually be checked up on
Maybe I’m blind but I’ve seen almost no NSFW stuff on ani.social, let alone CSAM/loli content. Even the stuff I’ve seen marked as NSFW is just risque art usually. Feels like they just decided we’re an anime community so we must be spreading that stuff.
It sucks but it is what it is, I can’t say I personally subscribed to any lemmy.ml communities anyway. I definitely don’t think it’s anything you’ve personally done or failed to do, never had any issues with any of the content or people on this instance!
People who are not tankies would rather defederate from lemmy.ml than you.
