The thing you are ‘where did that come from’ responding to came from my personal experiences.
In the last 5 years I have had serious, multi year long relationships with 3 women.
2 of them had serious mental disorders that led them to be massively manipulative and gaslighting, as well as abusive…
One was schizophrenic, one was split-personality (now called Dissociative Personality Disorder, i think?) and also had narcissistic personality disorder. They were both massively financially irresponsible, coming to simply expect I would solve any financial woes they faced, always from either disregarding my advice or doing something so absurd I did not even realize a person could be capable of doing such a thing.
A third woman had crippling anxiety attacks and massive depression, to the point she would often be unable to work, buy groceries, cook, do anything other than watch netflix.
Unfortunately all three of these women’s mental conditions contributed heavily to not being able to meet a large majority of your bullet points that we agree are gender/sex neutral and foundational to any healthy relationship.
I expended immense amounts of time, emotional energy, physical energy and financial resources into these relationships, and was met with dependency, and abuse if I did not continue supporting their irresponsible behaviors.
The cherry on top for all 3 of these was that they would be very very involved in the culture of feminism, always using a kind of pop-internet-feminism kinds of phrases and arguments to justify their abusive and exploitative behavior toward me.
They and their friends all made very big deals out of being socially progressive and encompassing feminist ideas of more balanced, equitable and less stereotypically patriarchal relationships, having and respecting boundaries, recognizing that men too are emotional beings who need to be able to feel safe being vulnerable.
They spent a lot of time posting and reading about such things on insta or tiktok or twitter or what have you.
This is why I call them hypocrites. They presented a front, a fake persona, that did not jive with their actual actions, which were often in direct opposition to their professed beliefs.
Anyway, with each of them I would eventually realize that when a relationship dynamic of asymmetric co dependence develops, generally speaking its not going to work out.
Given that all 3 continued exactly the kinds of manipulative, abusive amd irresponsible behaviors with their friends and later partners after our committed relationships ended, which I witnessed as I tried to remain friends with all 3 of them afterward, I feel fairly justified in the conclusion that it was right for me to no longer be involved with them.
I do not really want to be more specific than that, both because these relationships were massively traumatizing for me, and because I do not want to say anything that could possibly lead to someone figuring out their real world identities.
Generally speaking, I know I have a problem of being a doormat in relationships, and with these last 3 women, when I tried to exert boundaries, they were highly dismissive of this and all of them manipulated me into accepting not actually following them or in many cases believing they were valid. Then the co dependency loop starts, then eventually things get so absurd I do my best to disengage as politely as possible.
As such, I know that right now, due to this trauma and other reasons (mainly currently being homeless), I am far from a place of being able to be stable enough for a relationship, and am thus not actively pursuing any until I get my shit together, and hopefully am able to afford a decent therapist.
Any way, as to the other things you’ve said:
All 3 of these relationships /centered/ around communication. Centered around deep conversations and truly trying to get to know and understand a person’s goals, desires, interests, things they are passionate about.
With 2 of them, the communication grew to the point that I was often literally physically completely unable to maintain their need to be conversing with me /literally/ all of the time they were awake and not busy with something else, often messaging me and calling me while I was at work or asleep, which I had already given them my schedules for.
If I did not respond, they were justified in their own minds about being extremely upset about this.
If I ever accidentally called or texted them when they were at work or busy, it was fine for them to dismiss me or be angry I interrupted them.
The fundamental boundary of the conditions of communication itself was something all 3 of them would not respect whatsoever, even when they promised me over and over they would.
As to there being a need for actual psychologically sound relationship advice being a thing that society should receive, you seem to say that people should just figure this out naturally, if I am not misunderstanding you.
Well it seems well evidenced to me that society in general is and has been trying that approach and it often does not work. So I would again suggest something like the fundamentals of relationship dynamics being taught in standard public education.
As to your claim that essentially its fine to get your relationship psychological advice from tiktok, i generally find this laughable as tiktok is just chalk full of scammers and phonies promoting all kinds of nonsense for clout, and relationship advice is just one of the many, many genres of content where this exists.
The thing you are ‘where did that come from’ responding to came from my personal experiences.
In the last 5 years I have had serious, multi year long relationships with 3 women.
2 of them had serious mental disorders that led them to be massively manipulative and gaslighting, as well as abusive…
One was schizophrenic, one was split-personality (now called Dissociative Personality Disorder, i think?) and also had narcissistic personality disorder. They were both massively financially irresponsible, coming to simply expect I would solve any financial woes they faced, always from either disregarding my advice or doing something so absurd I did not even realize a person could be capable of doing such a thing.
A third woman had crippling anxiety attacks and massive depression, to the point she would often be unable to work, buy groceries, cook, do anything other than watch netflix.
Unfortunately all three of these women’s mental conditions contributed heavily to not being able to meet a large majority of your bullet points that we agree are gender/sex neutral and foundational to any healthy relationship.
I expended immense amounts of time, emotional energy, physical energy and financial resources into these relationships, and was met with dependency, and abuse if I did not continue supporting their irresponsible behaviors.
The cherry on top for all 3 of these was that they would be very very involved in the culture of feminism, always using a kind of pop-internet-feminism kinds of phrases and arguments to justify their abusive and exploitative behavior toward me.
They and their friends all made very big deals out of being socially progressive and encompassing feminist ideas of more balanced, equitable and less stereotypically patriarchal relationships, having and respecting boundaries, recognizing that men too are emotional beings who need to be able to feel safe being vulnerable.
They spent a lot of time posting and reading about such things on insta or tiktok or twitter or what have you.
This is why I call them hypocrites. They presented a front, a fake persona, that did not jive with their actual actions, which were often in direct opposition to their professed beliefs.
Anyway, with each of them I would eventually realize that when a relationship dynamic of asymmetric co dependence develops, generally speaking its not going to work out.
Given that all 3 continued exactly the kinds of manipulative, abusive amd irresponsible behaviors with their friends and later partners after our committed relationships ended, which I witnessed as I tried to remain friends with all 3 of them afterward, I feel fairly justified in the conclusion that it was right for me to no longer be involved with them.
I do not really want to be more specific than that, both because these relationships were massively traumatizing for me, and because I do not want to say anything that could possibly lead to someone figuring out their real world identities.
Generally speaking, I know I have a problem of being a doormat in relationships, and with these last 3 women, when I tried to exert boundaries, they were highly dismissive of this and all of them manipulated me into accepting not actually following them or in many cases believing they were valid. Then the co dependency loop starts, then eventually things get so absurd I do my best to disengage as politely as possible.
As such, I know that right now, due to this trauma and other reasons (mainly currently being homeless), I am far from a place of being able to be stable enough for a relationship, and am thus not actively pursuing any until I get my shit together, and hopefully am able to afford a decent therapist.
Any way, as to the other things you’ve said:
All 3 of these relationships /centered/ around communication. Centered around deep conversations and truly trying to get to know and understand a person’s goals, desires, interests, things they are passionate about.
With 2 of them, the communication grew to the point that I was often literally physically completely unable to maintain their need to be conversing with me /literally/ all of the time they were awake and not busy with something else, often messaging me and calling me while I was at work or asleep, which I had already given them my schedules for.
If I did not respond, they were justified in their own minds about being extremely upset about this.
If I ever accidentally called or texted them when they were at work or busy, it was fine for them to dismiss me or be angry I interrupted them.
The fundamental boundary of the conditions of communication itself was something all 3 of them would not respect whatsoever, even when they promised me over and over they would.
As to there being a need for actual psychologically sound relationship advice being a thing that society should receive, you seem to say that people should just figure this out naturally, if I am not misunderstanding you.
Well it seems well evidenced to me that society in general is and has been trying that approach and it often does not work. So I would again suggest something like the fundamentals of relationship dynamics being taught in standard public education.
As to your claim that essentially its fine to get your relationship psychological advice from tiktok, i generally find this laughable as tiktok is just chalk full of scammers and phonies promoting all kinds of nonsense for clout, and relationship advice is just one of the many, many genres of content where this exists.