The former president files several fresh motions to toss out Fulton County election interference charges
Attorneys for Donald Trump claim that the former president didn’t have “fair notice” that his attempts to reverse his Georgia loss in the 2020 presidential election could result in criminal charges against him.
A flurry of filings in Fulton County Superior Court on Monday argue that the sprawling election interference case against Mr Trump “consists entirely of core political speech at the zenith of First Amendment protections”.
Attorneys for the former president want the case dismissed on grounds that he has “presidential immunity” from actions while in office, that he was already acquitted for similar allegations in his second impeachment trial, and that he was never told that what he was doing in the state – where he is charged as part of an alleged racketeering scheme to unlawfully subvert the state’s election results – could be prosecuted.
Say it with me friends
Ignorance of the law is no excuse
It worked for Jr. Apparently he was too stupid to collude with Russia, despite his best efforts.
Being too stupid to do it is different from I didn’t know. Though both are bad.
The next trump legal argument: “yer honor I’m literally too dumb to commit crimes”
I wonder if being found incompetent to stand trail would have any effect on what he did as president. Like would they just invalidate anything he signed?
Not only that, but he was definitely informed. White House counsel and other informed professionals were privy to a bunch of meetings where people were talking about these ideas, and they shared their opinions and sometimes got in shouting matches or resigned.
I think Trump’s brain genuinely cannot process the concepts of “right” and “wrong” as distinct from whatever he feels like doing, and so you could say: Yes, people whose job it is to be informed experts told him very clearly that these things were illegal, but his brain is so rotten and single-minded that he couldn’t absorb that their advice might be objectively true, any more than a dog can understand a “keep off the grass” sign.
Fortunately I think the chance of his lawyers advancing that as a defense is pretty remote.
And hasn’t been since before the Roman empire, possibly longer.
Ignorantia juris non excusat
“Our country has a longstanding tradition of forceful political advocacy regarding widespread allegations of fraud and irregularities in a long list of presidential elections throughout our history, therefore, President Trump lacked fair notice that his advocacy in the instance of the 2020 presidential election could be criminalized,” according to his attorneys.
Calling what he did “political advocacy” is a bit like calling what Jeffrey Dahmer did an “alternative diet”…
…lacked fair notice that his advocacy in the instance of the 2020 presidential election could be criminalized
They’re trying to insinuate that it was only just made illegal after the fact, like he didn’t know that trying to commit election fraud was already a crime.
It’s a roundabout way of acknowledging that it’s considered uncouth to charge rich people with their crimes.
I’m pretty sure everyone in the federal government has had plenty of notice, since the US Constitution grants States the sole authority to operate elections.
I swear they’re about to take the Hitler defense. Just say, “yeah! We did it! We tried to overthrow the government! But only because we looooooove this country so much… And sure, sure, y’all say we’re racist, but it’s clear you don’t understand just how racist we are. We are waaaaaay more racist than you can even conceive.”
Then his idiot followers will talk about how he speaks the truth and says what’s on his mind and he’ll get locked up for, like, a year, during which time he’ll pen his horrible instruction manual on how to destroy our country.
The least realistic part of this, sadly, is the idea that he can write for himself.
“Trump needs more crayons and toilet paper for his book!”
“Wow! He must have written 100 pages by now!”
“No… He just won’t stop eating them…”
I’m stealing this.
What? No one warned me that stealing was illegal!
Human so morally bankrupt needs minimum notice period before committing crimes otherwise it’s unfair to judge him on said crimes.
Right…
I wasn’t told killing someone was a bad thing before I did it your honor…
You didn’t tell me ahead that I wasn’t supposed to murder anybody, so this one’s free…
Ignorance of the law has never been received in court as a viable defence.
In general no. Some laws have this written as a specific out though right into them. Not aware if Georgia’s laws have anything like this, but Trump Jr not being charged for criminal conduct in his meetings with Russian agents is a pretty famous example:
Mueller declined charging him because “On the facts here, the government would unlikely be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the June 9 meeting participants had general knowledge that their conduct was unlawful. The investigation has not developed evidence that the participants in the meeting were familiar with the foreign-contribution ban or the application of federal law to the relevant factual context.”
By no means am I saying this should be a valid defense, I don’t think it should. As our laws are written though, sometimes being too dumb to know it’s illegal might be a defense, at least for some of them.
Mueller dropped the biggest ball in American history with that whole report. He tried his best to deflect responsibility to deal with the situation to Congress and in so doing gave Republicans everything they needed to spin it all as inconsequential. What a fucking coward.
Mueller did exactly what he was legally allowed to do. A DOJ special counsel is not the same thing as an Independent Counsel.
He could not bring any charges himself, only report to the Attorney General or Deputy Attorney General. And he was also legally bound to follow all DOJ policy, which under AG Barr was that the DOJ could not charge a sitting President or even recommend.
agreed. his name should go down in history as ‘Failure’
Poor but uneducated = burden on society, better sterilize these folks
Rich but dumb = this person should have been taught better, shame on you all! Give them another chance and another company to be CEO of
Foreign contributions laws do not have anything written about ignorance of the law granting immunity. https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/CFR-2017-title11-vol1/CFR-2017-title11-vol1-sec110-20
Interesting. IANAL, you could be right. I’m only taking the reporting of why Mueller didn’t indict trump Jr at face value. Petty egregious he wasn’t indicted if that’s the case. It is the excuse the Justice department lawyers used. Like it’s right there in the report.
Also consider who they are saying is ignorant of campaign law, its Trumps campaign team, not just Jr but also Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner were at that meeting. I mean if the political campaign of a frontrunner presidential candidate isnt expected to know campaign law, who the hell is?
unless youre a police officer.
the only people allowed to be completely ignorant of the law, and get away with it, are police officers.
sure, they are wrong, but whatareyougunnadoaboutit. courts have ruled “police officers do not need to know the law to enforce it” which means they can literally do whatever they want, and you have no choice until later.
awesome.
After getting caught in a bank robbery, stealing thousands of dollars and traumatizing bystanders, the robber can just say: “No one gave me a fair notice this was illegal”
Is that pretty much the level of this claim?
I’d be like entering Fast 5 into evidence.
See your honor? The good guys were the robbers! They also love America and occasionally fuck members of their family.
Wait, I remember this one…
and that he was never told that what he was doing in the state – where he is charged as part of an alleged racketeering scheme to unlawfully subvert the state’s election results – could be prosecuted
All the murderers on death row are like “that works?!”, as they rush to call a lawyer.
Narrator: It does not.
This defense doesn’t even work in the context of his specific case. He was told by staffers that what he was attempting to do was illegal and he made the phone call anyway. How much “fair notice” do you need to double check that you’re not committing a crime when told by people whose job it is to do all of the research for you ahead of time?
Ignorance of the law is not a defense for breaking it, and this should be as damning as a confession of guilt.
He knows all this. This is just more nonsense to drag it out. The court can’t just say “shut the fuck up Donny” and move forward else he’ll claim unfair treatment. So they have to accept the motions and take the time to carefully disqualify them. This is just a tactic to cast more doubt on the proceedings and make it take longer so he can complain about how they’re dragging it out to make him look bad because he’s innocent and they don’t have the evidence to convict.
So did he just think that his 44 predecessors never thought to try?
So did he just think
well…
Trump: You never told me you’d prosecute me for election interference!
Georgia: You never asked!
Georgia: you should have already known, it’s the law. Not some ordinary contract that you get to sign or decline
with all this lack of knowledge it sounds like he shouldn’t be in office.
But… But he said he knows more than the generals :(
“Hey, I just tried to break into my school principal’s room on a weekend to change my exam grade - because, you know, bad grades don’t look good on me - BUT WHY IS THIS BEING MADE INTO SUCH A TOPIC ???”
“I didn’t see any sign on the door that said ‘breaking and entering not allowed,’ so how I was I to know?”
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin’ out the scenery
Breakin’ my mind
Do this, don’t do that
Can’t you read the sign?
For all the non-olds that need context:
We’ve been told pretty much forever that ignorance of the law is no defense, so shut the fuck up, Donny.
“stfu Donny, you’re out of your element” … “life does not stop and start at your convenience you miserable piece of shit.”
Ignorance of the law does not absolve you of the consequences for breaking that law.
Didn’t it work for Trump Jr and the Russian meeting? Like they couldn’t prove that Jr knew the meeting was illegal behind the flimsy excuse of adoptions. Not that I don’t agree, just some people seem to get away with it and this family seems to have unlimited avoid jail cards when either the avalanche of legal filings (according to contractors he’s stiffed) or whining doesn’t work.
There are specific laws where having certain knowledge is required to break them, but as far as I know, that knowledge never includes the law itself.
Can’t wait for SCOTUS to make affluenza a valid legal defense. \s
“Can’t tell if obviously-criminal things are illegal”, and “still thinks he should be president” 🤡