• Erika3sis [she/her, xe/xem]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      The irony of reading hexbears and lemmygradtsy posting about how “the Zapatistas have collapsed” literally right after I saw a comment on here about how Redditors “don’t actually read news, but just vibe over headlines”, I swear…

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      Their official statement:

      it was decided to dissolve the Zapatista Rebel Autonomous Municipalities (MAREZ) and the Good Government Boards. The Caracoles remain, but they will remain closed to the outside

      after a long and profound critical and self-critical analysis,… it was decided to dissolve the … Autonomous Municipalities and the Good Government Boards. We will discuss the reasons and process by which this decision was made little by little

      The region will remain in the hands of the Mexican state. Dissolution of the structures must be interrogated for conceding to the current conditions of power in Chiapas. Increases in federal troops and deepening of the existing capitalist economic dependency.

      • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        You’ve hacked up the quote to show only the parts you want to show. The rest of the paragraph you quoted reads as follows:

        We will tell you the reasons and process by which this decision was made little by little in the following texts. I can only tell you that this evaluation, in its final phase, began about 3 years ago. We will also explain to you what the new structure of Zapatista autonomy is like and how it has been developing.

        As others in this thread have been saying… They’re restructuring to address the situation with the cartels. We’ll have to see what that looks like, and if it will work. But it’s dishonest to characterize this as a collapse, as though they’re dissolving these political organs, and nothing else. Which they’re clearly saying isn’t the case.

        • ☭ Blursty ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          As others in this thread have been saying… They’re restructuring to address the situation with the cartels. We’ll have to see what that looks like, and if it will work.

          I’m going to predict that it will involve some hierarchy and authority, inevitably.

          • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            And I’m sure it will. But it feels super weird to me that this is being used to dunk on anarchists.

            The Zapatistas suffer from a problem of ideological eclecticism. There are MLs, Maoists, Anarchists, liberals, and indigenous nationalists all tied up in that movement, and it can’t be easily pinned down.

            I wish I could find it, but I once saw an interview with Subcomandante Marcos where the interviewer asks him about international support, and he gives a somewhat exasperated sigh and a knowing look to the camera and says “yes, from the Anarchists”.

            There’s a clear feeling from the Zapatistas, that while they’re grateful for the support from western anarchists, they’re also frustrated by this simplification of who and what they are by westerners.

            So it just feels gross and weird to me, that one group of western leftists is using the very real, existential, struggle of a revolutionary movement (no matter how flawed), as an excuse to dunk on another group of western leftists.

            Idk, maybe log off, actually

              • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                From the OP:

                EZLN, the favorite example of Anarchists and revisionists of an alternative to Marxism-Leninism, has now collapsed due to lack of solid theoretical fundamentals.

                From another comment:

                Got in an argument with an anarchist who was pro-Zapatista and called me a redfash tankie. I doubt this will sway him in the slightest.

                There’s clearly a dishonest interpretation of what’s going on, with a revolutionary movement in the global south, being used by western leftists to dunk on other western leftists.

                • ☭ Blursty ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Dunking on? Or exulting in being proven right?

                  I don’t personally buy this false equivalence that there are two western leftist groups engaged in a zero-sum game of one-upmanship. I see this as yet another demonstration of the futility of western anarchist cult-like thought and therefore progress being made. There are very real contradictions being resolved for those who want to see them.

                  The western anarchists I know in real life have moved from backing the Nazis in Ukraine to demanding condemnation of Hamas, to today whingeing about ML’s because of this story. We are not the same. But I guess they’re no true anarcho-Scots.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              1 year ago

              If you see me pointing out that lack of a solid foundation leads to socialist projects dissolving as a dunk on anarchists, then that kind of says it all.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          I’ve “hacked up” the quote to show the relevant parts of what actually happened in tangible terms. They’re dissolving because they tried to create autonomy within the context of an oppressive capitalist state, and that was never going to be sustainable. You can keep pretending this isn’t a collapse, but at that point you’re the one being intellectually dishonest and avoiding admitting the actual reality of what this “restructuring” means.