Welcome to Bartovia. Our little burg on the edge of nowhere. It would be completely unknown but for one fact: Bartovia is home to the largest, unexplored ruin known to exist. Every year, dozens of would-be heroes try their luck and every year the lucky ones go home empty-handed, but a little wiser maybe.
Once a decade - or less - someone escapes with real treasure. A time-hopping artifact crafted by a half-mad wizard with an unspeakable name. A sword that speaks the date and hour of your death when drawn.
And that always starts another frenzy among the desperate, stupid, or both, who flock here to die in those cursed halls.
Of course, in their haze of greed and increasing desperation, more than one dumb bastard has tried their hand at robbing the inhabitants of our humble home. The young fools never stop to wonder - who would stay here? But for the ruins there’s no industry. Too cold to grow most crops; No precious ores to mine; Nowhere near any of the good trade routes.
They don’t realize - we are them. The same fools and try-hards of years past. We’re the ones who pushed too hard; exhausted our funds; got injured; or just never learned to let go. We couldn’t leave. But couldn’t go on, either. We sold what we could part with…and then the rest. We got jobs. Opened taverns, inns, and supply stores to fleece the next round of idiots. Nevertheless, we are an entire city - if a small one - of adventurers.
Certainly, some of us are a bit long in the tooth - but woe betide the next poor bastard who thinks to pick a pocket in Bartovia.
This is both a fucking great idea to counter Murderhoboism, but it’s also hilarious and hot as hell. If I ever get a situation where this would fit, I shall do it.
Made in Abyss vibes, 10/10. A great worldbuilding aesthetic of a city of would-be adventurers hanging on the edge of the ruins they want to but can’t explore.
The tavern keeper has the Mounted Combatant feat, effectively giving his wife the benefits of Evasion.
I’ve got an awesome ride
I’ve got an awesome hat
Hot take : this idea isn’t a good choice.
And here is why. If you are using ingame tactics to discourage murderhoboing, then there is a chance to learn and not be a rotten core of a player. So, there is a chance to learn it ingame from it. Otherwise it’s a waste of time and you should ask them to join a table that they would fit if such exists.
Now, if you’re teaching something and use the good old dragon in human form once they start to push around, you better be doing it in a place that would fit before they even attempt it.
Because if you don’t, then you teach them that at any point, anywhere, there could be a dragon under disguise.
Hilarious as fuck for veteran players to play around with, as such ideas go. But teaching them this means that at any point there could be an overpowered, wise and objectively good morals anywhere.
Besides the huge problems this causes since it’s the guards-are-not-competent paradox of games but on steroids (if guards would be competent, then most adventures wouldn’t exist, especially at early levels), it also means that they are nothing and have no chance into moving the adventure one way or another. It would be like fighting a hurricane with a bug squasher.
Which is why, my personnal 2 cents is to have something that keeps your players in check but that could be part of the scenario. Kill an isolated merchand ? He has time to use Sending to a guard he knows well. Tries to be an ass to a waitress ? Get throwned out. Resists ? Local guard being called up.
If you make it realist and part of your world as it should be, you will then be teaching a solid lesson and keep your world coherent and consequence-FULL.
If you have read this until here, first thank you, and second I know this meme is mostly a running joke about improvised murderhobo-type players, but as someone that actually used it a few times you have to be careful when using disguised entities when doing it for reals. It’s the scenarist equivalent of juggling dynamite.
I really like your text but I just want to offer different view on the guards-are-not-competent paradox of games but on steroids.
Among the adventurers there is a sea of dead people trying to be something. But forgotten and killed by the most pathetic of monsters.
Why not take a cosy job guarding city just taking care of what really needs taken care of?
You have a job, home and you get live in end of the day.
Gigantic rats in basement of the local bar? Why risk your life when you can pay for some smucks to risk their life.
Their is underground cult? Tell the barman to pass around rumors and hope someone else wants investigate.
Instead stand around waving your fancy weapons and trinkets bought from nearby magic shop (probably just general store where heroes dumps their trash).
Well I mean then you are a corrupt guard, willing to send other do your job for a pay you yourself provide.
If its from the guards as a whole then they suck in general. Imagine a cop paying a young adult to deal with a rabbit dog. That doesnt make sense does it ? Or paying someone to go into a dark alleyway as there are rumors of people disappearing ?
The guards-are-incompetent is the nicest paradox name. It could also be named guards-are-lazy-cowards or also guards-are-corrupted but this then changes the context of the quests, no ? Which is why being incompetent remains the best worst kind of guards IMO.
I would not call it corrupt. I see it more as a guard job is to keep the common day peace.
But don’t cops lay off work to contractors? The average cop is not going to go down to deal with rabid wolf that terrorizes people. No they send animal control.
Or how in western movies how they put bounties on infamous gangs?
Or private detectives chasing down hard solved crimes.
Or private security firms?
Why would that be different to lay of work to a group that are more suited for that kinda work?
Depends to what you are comparing to. Sure, in old times they offered up bounties seriously to people around, and pest control is a thing. But half of most quests in early level would normally be dealt with with the equivalent of the cops and the army before they ever reach up to the public to ask for help.
When you put a bounty in the public, you are also saying : we can’t be bothered to do it ourselves, so yeah, if you do it we’ll give you money. That’s your image that is tarnished if you are supposed to be powerful and dangerous.
Another problem of a lawless land that employs bounty hunters ? There’s not a lot of cops or guards to deal with your players too. It’s the opposite situation of the silver dragon under disguise : not ENOUGH consequences to the players.
In the old west, sure there were bounties, but there were also posses ? When the sheriff, the only representation of the law, gathered people to deal with a bigger problem. Now THAT could work in a game : I’m a guard but I’m also the only guard around cause we’re lost as fuck and I need help please. That would totally work.
See, I think that even asking for help induces things in your world. And if you can make them fit into your narrative it’s cheff kiss good planifications. But sometimes, you just need guards to be incompetent and to bullshit a reason as to why for an adventure to even exist.
Because now it’s more a problem of having to prep reasons for the authorities NOT to deal with the problem at hand, everytime. It can be tiredsome to prepare for the DM. Hence the guards-are-incompetent unwritten contract between players and GM : we don’t go ask for help everytime because it’s a game and we’re the ones having fun.
Remember the time Tiberius wanted to call for an army to deal with another player’s backstory ? Yeah like that.
Sometimes I wonder if I run dnd “wrong”.
My players would castrate me if they went up to the guards and they where met by incompetence and I would just hand weave oh the guard won’t help you because they are just static images.
I don’t who Tiberius is, but if he was at my table and wanted to call the army and had established strong bands to governing force. But we assume he would not have a valid cause where the governing force would go of course here is army to protect the land.
With good enough persuasion and paying for the cost for the conscription I would let him.
Why would you not do this?
I don’t get why it would not be enough consequences. The party would fight all over the world against different adventure party’s that dying to be heroes. Every time they entering new town they have to hope the inn don’t have two or more adventure party’s.
Tiberius wanted to call his daddy the king for an army against bad guys to resolve the situation in a few shakes. The daddy, aka the DM, said politely to fuck off.
This was in Critical Roll.
Welp, what happens when your players have a side quest to do, for example finding a young girl, and go straight to the guards ? Not A guard, I mean the whole department of the guards. What then ?
Can I say that sounds like cop-out? If rest of party agree and wants to around collect peasants and knights to create an huge army I would let them. If daddy king have standing army that can solve it. Solve it. Don’t make a dnd a freaking Marvel movie where only those 5 are heroes if they don’t want it.
But to your guard question
The guards will first ask why the players have come to them as it is clearly something either sensitive as quest giver went to players instead of guards, it is extremely dangerous as their quest giver hired a mercenary instead of the guard or simple something that she normally do and why guards would not do it.
Guards finds who gave them their quest tells them to hire a better adventuring party because again why not go to guard in first place if not?
But lets ignore you said straight to the guards. The players have found a cult but they feel out matched. I would have the guards join them against the cult if the party split to pay. Reason why they need to be payed is because party got hired to deal with something.
If players say here is cult they have girl deal with it. Guards will deal with it either by doing it self or lay out the work to more competent party
To be explicit, I never meant : never go talk to the guards, ever. What I mean is that using the authorities as a magic button to solve problems is bad.
What is GOOD is using authorities to create adventures. If for example, you want the guards to raid a bandit camp that is currently the objective of the quest, then convincing them to do so should be as hard and as fun as raiding the camp itself.
But decent guards wouldn’t need convincing. They would at least check it out. Unless they suck as guards, or are bad guys’s guards. So either they have no reason to refuse straight up “until you convince us tee hee hee”, or they are incompetent, or they are the bad guys.
This is a blanket statement btw, I’m sure it’s possible to do something that proves me wrong. But we’re talking generalities here, not exceptions.
I’ll end by saying that even thought players can always go talk to the guards and get help from them, there is an unwritten rule that if the DM gives a task to the players to do, they aren’t really supposed to ship it to the guards and call it a day. There has to be something done by the players that makes the session fun and adventurous.
This is why you don’t murderhobo. Not all of us are cowards :p
silver dragon
Broke innkeeper marries a pale dragon with a freezing breath weapon and naturally good alignment.
white dragon
Woke innkeeper marries a pale dragon with a freezing breath weapon and naturally evil alignment.
this is the best reason to go full murderhobo