this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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Now if only they could more clearly communicate when games are playable offline.

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[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 356 points 1 week ago (25 children)

Ooh and it's a giant yellow banner you probably won't miss, and not some two-shades-ligher-than-the-background nonsense.

Good job, Valve.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 116 points 1 week ago

They do this with Early Access and people still lose their shit about empty content and unfinished graphics in a game they paid $10 for.

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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 137 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

However, it's only being forced for kernel-level anti-cheat. If it's only client-side or server-side, it's optional, but Valve say "we generally think that any game that makes use of anti-cheat technology would benefit from letting players know".

I will always love Valve for their ability to use corpospeak against corpos.

Your game has anti-cheat?

Wonderful!

I'm sure that always only results in an improved experience for all gamers, lets let them all know!

=D

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[–] Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 103 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That’s awesome! GTA V just screwed everyone on Linux! What a rug pull.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 148 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Adding kernel malware after the fact should entitle every single owner who requests one to a full refund no matter how long has passed.

[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 50 points 1 week ago

Full agree. I do want some kind of policy for games that introduce anti-cheat both during early access and after release. Bricking a game you paid for should offer some sort of recourse.

[–] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I'd really like Valve to take an official policy on post-release changes that break games, but for what it's worth they have not given me any hassle with refunds in these scenarios.

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[–] sonymegadrive@feddit.uk 81 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Easy Anti Cheat - requires manual removal

Wait, so this sketchy, privacy-invading stuff remains even after a game is uninstalled?! I had no idea.

How is this stuff not classed as malware at this point?

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 22 points 1 week ago

Oh it was initially classed as insanely intrusive malware when kernel level AC was introduced about a decade ago, by anyone with a modicum of actual technical knowledge about computers.

Unfortunately, a whole lot of corpo shills ran propaganda explaining how actually its fine, don't worry, its actually the best way to stop cheaters!

Then the vast, vast majority of idiot gamers believed that, or threw their hands up and went oh well its the new norm, trying to fight it is futile and actually if you are against this that means you are some kind of paranoid privacy freak who hates other people having fun.

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[–] vordalack@lemm.ee 78 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Any program having kernel level access is spyware. This is getting ridiculous.

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[–] TommySoda@lemmy.world 68 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I feel like they're doing this because they are going so hard with steam deck. Regardless, good on Valve for doing this.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 days ago

The steam deck is also amazing, such a nice piece of hardware. I've been gaming on Linux for years and I'm surprised how well it works. Feels like a console.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 43 points 1 week ago (7 children)

I wonder if you phrased it the way the Play store does: This game wants permission to:

  • send SMS messages
  • make calls
  • know your location
  • stalk your family
  • raid your fridge
  • access, read and upload files
  • manage and add contacts
  • cup your balls
  • go through your trash
  • irritate your boss

etc.

Think anyone would install them?

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[–] Woodstock@lemmy.world 42 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Can someone explain like I’m stupid on kernel level anti cheat and why I should watch out for it? Not a dig at all, a genuine question!

[–] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 103 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

To put it very simply, the 'kernel' has significant control over your OS as it essentially runs above everything else in terms of system privileges.

It can (but not always) run at startup, so this means if you install a game with kernel-level anticheat, the moment your system turns on, the game's publisher can have software running on your system that can restrict the installation of a particular driver, stop certain software from running, or, even insidiously spy on your system's activity if they wished to. (and reverse-engineering the code to figure out if they are spying on you is a felony because of DRM-related laws)

It basically means trusting every single game publisher with kernel-level anticheat in their games to have a full view into your system, and the ability to effectively control it, without any legal recourse or transparency, all to try (and usually fail) to stop cheating in games.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 66 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And it's worth noting that trusting the game developer isn't really enough. Far too many of them have been hacked, so who's to say it's always your favorite game developer behind the wheel?

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 21 points 1 week ago

Or, even better, when you let a whole bunch of devs have acces to the kernel...

... sometimes they just accidentally fuck up and push a bad update, unintentionally.

This is how CrowdStrike managed to Y2K an absurd number of enterprise computers fairly recently.

Its also why its ... you know, generally bad practice to have your kernel just open to fucking whoever instead of having it be locked down and rigorously tested.

Funnily enough, MSFT now appears to be shifting toward offering much less direct access to its kernel to 3rd party software devs.

[–] barlescharkley@lemmy.world 60 points 1 week ago

More importantly, if traditional anticheat has a bug, your game dies. Oh no.

If kernel level anticheat has a bug, your computer blue screens (that's specifically what the blue screen is: a bug in the kernel, not just an ordinary bug that the system can recover from). Much worse. Sure hope that bug only crashes your computer when the game is running and not just whenever, because remember a kernel-level program can be running the moment your computer boots as above poster said

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[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Making it super simple, it runs with full access on your machine, always. It can fuck anything up, and see everything. It can get your browser history, banking details or private messages you enter, activate your webcam or mic without you knowing, or brick your computer even.

And you can't even check what it's really doing on your computer because it's a crime under US law.

Finally, it can get hacked and other people than the creator can do all these to your computer as well,as it already happened once.

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[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Easy, a bug in battle eye forced me to reinstall windows, this kernel access has to go.

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[–] Nytixus@kbin.melroy.org 42 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Meanwhile at Epic...

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

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[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 39 points 1 week ago

Common valve W

[–] Mwa@lemm.ee 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

W steam/valve

[–] ThermonuclearCactus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I bought Sea of Thieves about 5 years ago. Recently, they added kernal-level anticheat (which does precisely fuck-all to actually stop cheating). While that is annoying, I'm not particularly worried because the studio that makes that game is owned by Microsoft, and like all Microsoft products, it was banished to my windows partition with the rest of the spyware.

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[–] corroded@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Why is kernel-level anti-cheat even a thing?

If I was trying to prevent cheating, I'd hash the relevant game files, encrypt the values, and hard-code them into the executable. Then when the game is launched, calculated the hash of the existing files and compare to the saved values.

What is gained by running anti-cheat in kernel mode? I only play single-player games, so I assume I'm missing something.

[–] kevindqc@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Because there are kernel-level cheats

What you proposed can very easily be bypassed without even needing kernel access by just editing the executable code that checks hashes to always return true

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[–] SkavarSharraddas@gehirneimer.de 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Modern cheats for multiplayer games don't modify local files (or attribute values in memory), since the server validates everything anyway. They're about giving you information that's available but not shown in the game (like see-through walls, or exact skill ranges), or manipulate input (dodge enemy damage, easy combos). Those cheat can run in kernel mode (or at least evade detection from user mode), so the anti-cheat needs kernel mode to be more effective.

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