cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17147012
"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."
-a 15yo autistic girl experiencing ABA therapy
This is only vaguely related, but I remember reading that anti-authoritarianism is a trait of autism. I’m an autistic anarchist, so seeing the crosspost community is fun
I wonder how much of that is a reaction to not understanding rules. Since transitioning, my sister has gone into the “everyone needs to submit to God” category.
Of course, God could be the only authority and every other authority is an idol.
Yeah, I understand hierarchy but it’s only a title, you’re just a person like everyone else so fucking chill
I can understand hierarchy in systems, roles, and responsibilities. I cannot understand hierarchies in social settings. It’s not even values-related or a choice. I just don’t have the mental capacity to even see it.
I put ABA in wikipedia an scrolled to the critique section.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_behavior_analysis
Not fun to read. Really not. I also looked for the cited study that reproduce these findings.
Apparently ABA has the chance to traumatise a person, induce exploitable behaviour and induce selftdestructive thoughtpatterns.
Despite that, apparetly some individuals profit from ABA.
Here is the link to the study cited in wikipedia: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13623613221118216
Edit: Linked Wikipedia
Yep, like anything with the goal of changing behaviors it all comes down to what behaviors you’re targeting, why you’re targeting them, and how you’re planning to discourage the targeted behavior and enforce the desired replacement.
It’s great if you’re trying to change behaviors that cause the autistic person distress and interfere with them living a fulfilling and happy life, but horrible if you’re aim is to just enforce blind conformity for the sake of it.
My wife is autistic as are at least 2 of our 3 kids, with the third awaiting his own evaluation. She studied ABA in college because when you tell a woman with autism and severe OCD that actually a lot of human behavior is ordered and explainable if you understand the underlying reasons the behaviors exist she tends to jump on it to explain all of the “stupid social bullshit” she’s had to deal with all her life.
Authority is a privilege and a responsibility, not a virtue or a right. If you are in a place of authority your life should be harder, not full of fawning sycophants that give you an ego boost.
This is great, I think there could be a version that inverts the condition. Something like “if you won’t respect me as a person I can’t respect you as an authority”
Even so, that still sounds like a very low bar to respect someone as an authority.
It isn’t the only condition, just one of them
I’m autistic and dealt with the same behaviour. I eventually just made sure to let everyone around them know about the behaviour. Turns out even people who consider themselves an authority quickly become very nice when their peers know about their behaviour. Even better, when the world outside their org knows
Yeah I’ve lost jobs because “authority” figures wanted me to treat them like they’re special and better than everyone else and I’m like “I’ll continue to give you the respect you deserve until you start deserving more.”
Such a place probably wasn’t good for you anyways
a 15yo autistic girl experiencing ABA therapy
You’re all acting like the relevant bit here isn’t the 15yo bit.
Adult gets frustrated with know-it-all 15yo, and does what they need to to put the kid in their place so they can do their damned job, kid comes up with bullshit rationalisation for why they’re right and everyone else is wrong once they get home, Internet echo chamber enables them, news at 11.
Yeah, the fact she’s a teenager doesn’t invalidate her perspective at all, no more than the fact she’s a woman. Teenagers DO have more insight into the injustices of society than adults who have grown comfortable with their advantages in it. Wisdom and foolishness both develop early, and only rarely do they swap with age. Her insight is wise, and it’s foolish of you to dismiss her.
Teenagers DO have more insight into the injustices of society than adults who have grown comfortable with their advantages in it.
I think you need to speak to some actual teenagers. A subset of every generation thinks they’re on a holy crusade to right the world’s wrongs, but most of them grow up.
No, most of them give up as adults. Doesn’t mean those problems disappeared. I’ve met damn few men I would consider grown up.
My son can be a hell of a smart ass at times as all 12 year old kids can be. He’s autistic, was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, the whole 9. But it’s the damnedest thing, when I talk to him like he’s a person with his own agency, treat him with dignity and respect, and explain to him why I want something from him he happily hops right up and does exactly what I ask. It’s the craziest thing.
The 15 year olds of the world often see the hypocrisy of people and society more clearly than those who are financially or socially motivated to ignore them. Their observations are not invalidated by their age.
If someone’s job is to be an abusive authoritarian hypocrite, then they choose abusive power and financial gain over humanity. The Nuremberg defense is not valid moral shield.
This quote is almost a decade old now, and has gained recognition for its general insight countless times over. Why the naked, ageist contempt?
If someone’s job is to be an abusive authoritarian hypocrite
Jesus christ, mate, try harder. This is the shit I’m talking about.
Why the naked, ageist contempt
The contempt is for the enabling. Kids have always acted hard done by. It’s not hard to see that someone just didn’t want to take their therapist’s advice or didn’t like what they told them, played the victim card in the most vague, abstract way possible (this is the telltale sign that it’s a bullshit rationalisation), and now they’ve got a whole Internet full of maladjusted people with their own axes to grind and little genuine interest in helping anyone to reinforce their maladaptive behaviours.
You know the best way to get a teenager or a toddler for that matter to do something? Start by treating them like a person.
I bet you absolutely love listening to people as they refuse to treat you like a person, let alone acknowledge your bullshit rationalisation.
Try not to lick any boots on your way out.
Any credibility you had, you aborted it with that last line. Naaaah, this is totally not just some teenager who resents adults telling them what to do, and this forum is totally not just a bunch of anarkiddies circlejerking, but also we’re gunna call you a bootlicker.
Who cares if the quote is total bullshit by someone acting in bad faith if it hones the edge of the ideological axe you have to grind. Shit’s just reddit all over again.
Die mad, I guess. Probably avoid having kids in the meantime though - I can’t imagine they’d deserve you as a parent.
Die mad, I guess.
Dude, I’m getting hitler comparisons and called a boot licker for inserting the only hint of healthy skepticism into the whole damned thread. Now I’m getting fuckin’ 'u mad’s straight outta 2008. Excuses, deflections, personal attacks; as the kids say, cope harder.
(Oh and I’m not discounting the more sensible responses, it’s just there’s not a lot to say to personal anecdotes about some guy’s 12yo son.)
You’re making highly authoritarian, essentialist arguments - I can’t imagine why you’d be getting that kind of pushback.
As you double down while getting downvoted to oblivion as everyone tells you how wrong you are, I’m sure you won’t be the…
kid (that) comes up with bullshit rationalisation for why they’re right and everyone else is wrong once they get home.
You’re making highly authoritarian, essentialist arguments
Bruh, spend less time online and/or on campus, you’re turning into a moon person.
The fucking irony of someone who was on the receiving end of malpractice from a psychiatrist as a child having to state that, yes, mental health professionals are generally authorities on behavioural and cognitive issues, and yes, adults are generally authorities on most things compared to 15yos. If I can get over it, I’m sure you can - hopefully before you spit out any little undisciplined animals of your own, and make them everyone else’s problem.
As you double down while getting downvoted to oblivion as everyone tells you how wrong you are
This is an indicator of a weak mind. Popularity contests have about as much bearing as insults. At no point have any of you explained how or why my reading of the post isn’t valid, and I highly suspect the anonymous downvotes and smartarsery are because you know it is and just don’t want to think about it, either due to an overarching agenda, or because no one likes feeling like they’ve been hoodwinked.
There we have it folks.
You couldn’t help putting a nice little bow on my point, could you?
