- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
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The cost isn’t what they are demonstrating here. It’s the feasibility of the tech. Electric cars had to pass the feasibility test before anyone was going to pay the high new tech prices. I think Tesla’s were 100k to begin with? The range was about the same or less than a gas car but I can’t imagine it being successful if it only had a 150mile range.
Once people think the tech is good enough they will be hoping the price comes down so everyone can use it not just rich people
This isn’t just a feasibility demonstrator, it’s the first unit of a four unit order that’s supposed to enter service this year. The testing in Colorado is for federal certification to use the train in revenue service on railroads in the U.S. Setting a Guinness World Record was just a side effort for publicity and to show the full capabilities of the system.
For those who are curious, they did this at the Transportation Technology Center near Pueblo acorrding to this article.
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Save the hydrogen for better suited use-cases - trains are easily electrified and should be running on catenaries.
For regional train lines/freight lines full electrification isn’t feasible due to the length of track, diesels still rule the train world because of this
I honestly think this is just cheaping out, and I bet electrification will pay off on a long enough horizon.
Fwiw, I think basically all of Sweden where I live is electrified - 80% of the rails, with the 20% principally being a freight line in the far north used for the purposes of transporting ore from the mines.
It works great for European countries sure, but when it costs roughly $5 million per kilometre to electrify track and there are for example 800kms between Melbourne and Sydney, the cost just gets astronomical, not to mention the headaches of getting 1000V DC across that distance.
A self-sustaining vehicle is really important for big countries with long inter-country rail lines that have no support infrastructure for hundreds of kilometres
These stories almost never mention fuel used, or fuel cost, in case someone does the math and figures out just how expensive these vehicles are to run.
Because that’s not the point, hydrogen is the most abundant fuel we have access to. The idea that we shouldn’t be using it is just dumb. It’s what’s more than likely going to fuel our ships to other planets eventually. It’s one of the reasons finding water on planets and moons is a big deal. The thought from the battery crew that we shouldn’t pursue hydrogen is just stupid.
hydrogen is not a fuel. You have to make it, and you always get less energy out than you put into doing so.
It’s a very inefficient battery. On a vehicle that has no weight concerns.
You’re like the guy who found oil and said it’s not a fuel.
We did pursue it. Batteries won for common use cases. There may yet be niches where it’s useful, but they’ll be the exception.
We’re still pursuing it. Batteries do not work for basically anything other than average passenger vehicles in the city or near cities. They do not work in construction, they do not work for heavy equipment, long haulers or even large sea vessels…they do not work for shit in aircraft that carry anything other than itself or tiny payloads…and they really are pointless for any sort of space propulsion. A mixed energy planet is what is needed, not this “batteries are the end all be all” thought so many of you have.
Most of the items you mention are being overtaken by better batteries. Long haul trucking batteries will likely be at cost parity with diesel trucks this year. Big cargo ships should probably go to SMRs. Airplanes no longer look as out of reach as they once appeared.
Space flight is such a specialized use case. Of course hydrogen will be the predominant fuel there. More because there’s limited options than anything else.
None of what you have is being done on a large scale because it doesn’t scale. Batteries are good for basically close cities where range isn’t an issue and super chargers are easily accessible. Everywhere else they do not hold up. You will never see a battery operated crane or some farm equipment, it’s just not possible with our current tech. If batteries magically decrease in weight, cost way less, are rechargeable in 5mins from basically and 110/120 outlet then sure, but for everything that isn’t some nice paved road and a semi short trip, it’s not happening.
Also, farms often have a beefy three phase incoming mains, or even an onsite transformer, so installing a DC charger isn’t a big problem.
Lol, yes all farms have power to the fields…lol the fuck are you smoking. I own a farm, some days I’m running my tractor 10-12 hours straight…no one I know in my community who does any crops or hay would buy that.
Battery cranes already exist: https://www.liebherr.com/en/usa/products/mobile-and-crawler-cranes/crawler-cranes/lr-crawler-cranes/details/lr1200unplugged.html
Do you have any more easily dismissed claims?
Yes…those 4 hours must be amazing…then it needs to be plugged in…to a what? O right a generator that runs on diesel. You clearly do not understand how construction or anything heavy equipment works do you?
Long haul trucking batteries will likely be at cost parity with diesel trucks this year.
We have 2 electric Volvo FHs with everything else speced exactly like my diesel powered Volvo FH 500 turbo compound (gearbox, final drive, tyres, cab/cab equipment). With my 1265 litre tanks, I go about 4000 kilometres - load dependant - against their max 300 kilometre range - also load dependant. It takes me 15 minutes at a fast pump to fill the tanks. It takes the EVs 30 minutes to get to 80% on a fast-charger. They cost more than double my ICE to purchase. The price has a long way to fall, ignoring the range completely. Battery powered trucks are only good for the ‘last mile’ deliveries, everything else needs to be hydrogen powered.
They don’t work in construction?
There are applications for hydrogen vehicles, but commuter trains aren’t one of them, especially since weight isn’t really much of an issue, so we can just keep adding batteries to get whatever range we need.
Weight is always an issue, who told you it isn’t? And sounds like you know something these engineers don’t.
Some locomotives alone weigh hundreds of tonnes, while weight is an issue, it’s less of an issue than most applications.
Yep, but you’re suggesting that a train which with a diesel motor that weighs that much, wouldn’t be an issue with batteries. If you are going electric, skip the batteries and go over head tram lines and be done with it.
Yeah, but it’s attached to other molecules, and it’s really hard to separate the stuff.
Hydrogen is a really shitty and inefficient battery, it would be cheaper, easier, and more efficient to just put batteries on the train.
Or an overhead wire and don’t worry about batteries.
Overhead lines are almost as expensive as laying the track in the first place though.
Not if you do it simultaneously… cost is higher than just rail, but rains wouldn’t have range limits at all, and would weigh less, meaning less energy used to accelerate (and better emergency brake response).
I’m very pro EV, but even more a fan of distributed power systems that aren’t chemical based.
That ship has, for the most part, sailed though.
We can consider it a relatively straightforward upgrade to the system though. Definitely more expensive than upgrading individual trainsets to h2 or lithium, and nowhere near as quick… But it could be staged, or just the mainlines.
Imagine mainlines get electrified so EV or h2 trains use none of their onboard energy, until they start getting onto the unelectrified branches.
Yea totally why large companies are still pursuing it, apparently you and all the EV fanboys know something they don’t.
Also you saying it’s really hard to do something is like the same people who said we shouldn’t be flying, it’s to hard. That’s not how innovation works. To you eating raw meat and living in caves is where humanity should have stopped apparently, because everything else is hard to do.
OK buddy.
You can lookup the industrial cost of hydrogen in bulk pretty easy. Stop complaining and get some work done.
Can you now? How much does hydrogen in industrial quantities cost? Because, believe me, I’ve tried to find this information.
I can tell you the pump price in California though.
