• Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
      412·
      11 months ago

      Yes, but each package manager has it’s (dis-)advantages. It’s great to have flatpak and docker to be able to run software on almost all distros, but the OS still needs a way to update.

      Almost all immutable distros use multiple package manager.

      • Fedora Silverblue: rpm-ostree + flatpak (+ toolbox)
      • OpenSUSE MicroOS: zypper with snapshots (transactional-update) + flatpak (+ distrobox)
      • NixOS is unique since it only uses the Nix package manager
      • immutable Ubuntu will probably only use snap for OS + apps.

      All those OS support distrobox and docker additionally.

      • monk@lemmy.unboiled.info
        17·
        11 months ago

        NixOS is unique because it uses the only potent package manager (if we don’t count that one reimplementation of Nix). Calling the others “package managers” becomes mostly a courtesy when NixOS enters the picture.

        lalala with FS-level snapshots + flatpak + distrobox + a kitchen sink

        look_what_they_need_to_mimic_the_fraction_of_our_power.png

        • GuybrushThreepwo0d@programming.dev
          14·
          11 months ago

          I don’t consider myself a dumb person but I couldn’t figure out nix when last I decided to play with it. Theoretically it seems super interesting to me, but I really just can’t dedicate the time again now to learn that esoteric syntax.

          • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
            16·
            11 months ago

            The docs for NixOS aren’t good. Much knowledge is on many blogs but who knows them all?

            Having the OS defined declaratively is great but I also dislike the Nix language.

            Once it’s setup NixOS is great. Sharing configs with PC and laptop is awesome. Rollbacks are baked in.

            Going off the https://github.com/Misterio77/nix-starter-configs helped me gettung started.

            • silicon_reverie@lemmy.world
              8·
              11 months ago

              I absolutely loved NixOS on paper, and it’s undoubtedly the best way to combat updates that break my dependency trees, but I still found myself spending a majority of my time attempting to hard-code various app configuration files into my convoluted configuration.nix with its esoteric syntax rather than actually using my computer. Am I missing something, or does a good install script covering my favorite packages and a git bare repo storing my dot-files get me 90% of the way there without the hassle of bending my whole OS around a single nix config monstrosity?

              • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
                2·
                11 months ago

                Agreed, I’m also considering switching to an install script + btrfs snapshots. It worked quite well a few years ago, altough it doesn’t solve configuration drift.

              • monk@lemmy.unboiled.info
                1·
                11 months ago

                Only if you reinstall every time you change the configuration. And never need to do anything remotely fancy.

          • monk@lemmy.unboiled.info
            1·
            11 months ago

            The syntax is just the outer layer, the whole concept inside it is alien. It’s like a smartphone for a person who’s only seen books.

      • merthyr1831@lemmy.world
        21·
        11 months ago

        all the more reason to sunlight these old packaging formats and move to universal solutions like flatpak and nix

    • Synthead@lemmy.worldEnglish
      242·
      11 months ago

      Linked dependencies, for one. What if your distro uses uClibc? A different imagemagick version? What about LTS distros? Immutable distros?

      • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
        404·
        11 months ago

        What if who cares?

        When I used to build app packages internally I also built packages for our own python and ruby versions for our in-house software. The motto was: “system packages are for system software”. We weren’t writing system software, we were writing business software and shipping it, so why be dependent on what Redhat or Debian provided?

        Universal packages are just an extension of this philosophy, and is why things like docker and app stores are such a success. Burdening the user with getting system dependencies right is worse than the DLL hell of the old windows days.

      • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
        3·
        11 months ago

        Usually people mean flatpak and other desktop-focused formats when talking about universal package formats.

        Even docker images are usually built with traditionial package managers, except if they’re built directly by Nix.

        I agree that there won’t be “the” package format, since they all have their tradeoffs. E.g. Nix updates need quite a bit of memory, so it isn’t a good choice for resource constrained embedded use-cases.

    • AlijahTheMediocre@lemmy.world
      101·
      11 months ago

      Flatpak with OSTree or ABroot, the future is now. Although it would be nice if Silverblue would automatically create a container and install non-flatpak apps into it, then add desktop.ini files automatically:

    • ledtasso@lemmy.world
      1·
      11 months ago

      Is it used for any serious apps? I saw they released the “cosmos” which is very impressive but mostly seemed like basic utils that were already available in Linux/Mac?

  • Shatur@lemmy.ml
    101·
    11 months ago

    I see how it can be convenient for some distros to get the latest version or install something that is not in the official repo.

    But I use ArchLinux and we always have latest versions and big repo + AUR, so I never used universal packages.

  • Karcinogen@discuss.tchncs.de
    1318·
    11 months ago

    Frankenstein is a surname. The mad scientist’s name was Dr. Victor Frankenstein. Since the monster wasn’t endowed with a first name, the only name it would have is Frankenstein: the same last name as its father.